Daddy will I Dream?.. Yes Roxxane, you will

[TheCMSH]

Just got to thinking, I wonder if you have a bad O2 sensor or maybe something is jacked-up at a connector? As I recall that connector is wedged tight to the firewall and I'm sure you would've had to move the sensor wiring around a lot to accommodate all this. Perhaps knocked something out of kilter?

If I had been a better friend I'd be able to recall from a visual but since I am an asshole I never made it by like I said I would

[Blk n Blu]

but since I am an asshole

Talk about tag lines.

[ChadC]

that is possible. I never disconnected the o2 sensor, but i did have to wiggle/molest the header on that side.

im at the point where im just guessing I have so many unknowns.

of course my data logging sucks and does not work. grrrrr

time to start looking down other avenues for pro support.

..this is something I knew might happen. so many moving parts I would have been amazed if it all worked out right out of the gate.

[Unreal]

If it was the o2 sensor plug/etc it would throw a different code. For some reason that sides fuel trims are going +25% which is what causes this. That means it either isn't getting fuel on 1 or more cylinders or too much un metered air. A quick scan should help diagnosis the problem. If the fuel trims are whacked on both sides it is probably an air leak issue, if it is only the one side then it is probably a fuel issue.

[ChadC]

If it was the o2 sensor plug/etc it would throw a different code. For some reason that sides fuel trims are going +25% which is what causes this. That means it either isn't getting fuel on 1 or more cylinders or too much un metered air. A quick scan should help diagnosis the problem. If the fuel trims are whacked on both sides it is probably an air leak issue, if it is only the one side then it is probably a fuel issue.

thanks i was thinking the same thing too. I wonder if I have a bad injector (mechanical or electrical failure)

it is consistently one one bank only. so my gut is telling me the issue is that side only and not a vacuum leak.

I

[Unreal]

If you weren't on the other side of the world from me I would come over and scan it. Do you have a laser heat gun? You could check the primaries to see if one is cooler than the others. That would let you know if it is the whole side or just 1 cylinder.

[ChadC]

If you weren't on the other side of the world from me I would come over and scan it. Do you have a laser heat gun? You could check the primaries to see if one is cooler than the others. That would let you know if it is the whole side or just 1 cylinder.

ooh... good ider!

I do and Ill give it a shot.

my current t-shooting steps (thoughts)

-while the coil pack is loose, it gives me access to the injectors. while is engine is running at idle Ill pull a single injector offline one at a time to listen for engine RPM/behavor change.

- the injectors were a bitch it get in. I wonder if an O ring has crimped/rolled/torn. pull and inspect.

- the current setup is a "U" shape. fuel starting at the driver side rear, and connecting to the passenger side. the passenger side rear has a plug and the the farthest from the source. that is the point of lowest fuel pressure. buy parts to convert this to a "Y" setup where each rail is fed the same from the rear.

[TheCMSH]

- the injectors were a bitch it get in. I wonder if an O ring has crimped/rolled/torn. pull and inspect.

Really???? You opened the door for this abuse again???? Get ready for the onslaught

[Unreal]

Plenty of big power setups on a U setup. That wouldn't cause this issue. A Y maybe better but it isn't needed and definitely not causing this issue. A pinched or broken oring wouldn't cause this, just a fuel leak and maybe a really small vacuum leak.

If you don't get it fixed by the weekend I can swing by with the scanner this weekend and look at the o2 sensors, maf, etc.

[joe@cpr.com]

If you weren't on the other side of the world from me I would come over and scan it. Do you have a laser heat gun? You could check the primaries to see if one is cooler than the others. That would let you know if it is the whole side or just 1 cylinder.

ooh... good ider!

I do and Ill give it a shot.

my current t-shooting steps (thoughts)

-while the coil pack is loose, it gives me access to the injectors. while is engine is running at idle Ill pull a single injector offline one at a time to listen for engine RPM/behavor change.

- the injectors were a bitch it get in. I wonder if an O ring has crimped/rolled/torn. pull and inspect.

- the current setup is a "U" shape. fuel starting at the driver side rear, and connecting to the passenger side. the passenger side rear has a plug and the the farthest from the source. that is the point of lowest fuel pressure. buy parts to convert this to a "Y" setup where each rail is fed the same from the rear.

pulling the injector clip is a good starting point, and do a temp check on the primaries. you don't need to mess w/ the fuel rail setup at all. you are not pushing the limits of a non return or non parallel system at all.

[Desertdawg]

- the injectors were a bitch it get in. I wonder if an O ring has crimped/rolled/torn. pull and inspect.

Really???? You opened the door for this abuse again???? Get ready for the onslaught

[ChadC]

pulling the injector clip is a good starting point, and do a temp check on the primaries. you don't need to mess w/ the fuel rail setup at all. you are not pushing the limits of a non return or non parallel system at all.

Thanks Joe and Unreal for the tips.

WED night update

..so there is an interesting development

while pulling the Fuel injector connector for 8 and 2, I could hear the engine give more effort to maintain idle. Not as much as I would have thought, but a change none the less.

here is the weird bit.

when pulling the connector for 6 and 4 there was NO CHANGE in behavior sound/vibration.

..huh 2 injectors?

now the Thermal reading on the primaries

(the picture was taken 2 min after the car was off) so a reading on the primaries showed 1, 3, 5, 7 (driver side) all at 238* to 252*

the reading on 2 and 8 showed 245* for each (give or take a few)

however 4 and 6 showed 145*!!! and 153*!!!

I dont have any conclusions at the moment, but im more surprised that (if im interpreting the data correctly) I have TWO INJECTORS not working.

ack!!

plus im a bit surprised that this creature will still run/idle with out shaking like Michael J Fox

[Unreal]

Surprised it doesn't shake like crazy if two were out. I am thinking it is the blower leaking/etc pushing a lot less air into those cylinder or something since they are next to each other.

[ChadC]

don't get me wrong the car is idling around 500 to 650 RPM. Id like to see 750 RPM my self, but she has always been a bit of a low idle (i think).

for the moment (I have started drinking);

I think im going to swap injectors 6<->8 and 4<->2.

let see if the 'low temp' primaries follow them.

if YES: then the injectors are bad

if NO; faulty wiring, connector.

Unreal,

if the 'less air' is the case ill take the valve covers off first , and make sure the rockers arms are still fully seated and have no backed out, therefore the Intake valve is not opening all the way. However not to argure, but if there was less air I suspect the system would throw a 'Too Rich' code.

that is unless I have ONE failing injector and ONE cylinder getting less air....

[Unreal]

Hard to say. If two are getting more air, you only have 1 o2 for the whole side. It may be leaning it out. If the overall bank is lean it will keep adding fuel until you get that error. Good luck with whatever it is.

[ChadC]

WED night second update

crap.. life is never that easy.

swapped the injectors, and cylinder 4 and 6 are still 'cold' by 50* to 80* comapired to 1, 3, 5, 7, 2 and 8.

my next thought is to get a bed of nails style connector, and connect up my Fluke 40 meter to the injectors them selves. I want to see/measure the voltage going to them.

Looking on the bright side im narrowing down this gremlin.

[joe@cpr.com]

If you swapped injectors and no change its not an injector I'm sure. Rockers torqued to 22lb/ft? Personally if thats fine I think you have an issue with the blower not sealing to the heads. Plug wires seated ?

[ChadC]

If you swapped injectors and no change its not an injector I'm sure. Rockers torqued to 22lb/ft? Personally if thats fine I think you have an issue with the blower not sealing to the heads. Plug wires seated ?

respectfully I disagree.

I agree that the injectors are A-OK, but if the connector going to the injector is failing (either increased Ohm's, low voltage, damaged wire, damage connector) then that could be my gremlin.

my T-shooting brain is kicking in and I need to confirm before moving on.

.soo im going down the electrical/ injector path for the moment.

-the rockers are tqred to 22LB, im 1000% sure on that.. but when t-shooting I believe in the Ronald Reagan motto "Trust but verify"

-Ill reseat the plugs, too. easy enough.

-the intake vacuum leak is a headache because taking off that damm supercharger is a nightmare. tis heavy, and there are 30 hoses. ug not looking forward to that.

[joe@cpr.com]

Fair enough it's possible you pinched the harness when setting down the blower. I've done a few of these blowers and oh ya i understand how terrible those bolts are to get to that hold it down. Good luck and keep posting what you find.

[Unreal]

I still think it is airflow/blower related. If 2 injectors were out it wouldn't even run. Plus it would set all sorts of other codes if two injectors weren't firing. You would have a slew of misfire/injector codes, not just two cylinder running richer.

[FNBADAZ06]

So.....pull he plugs on the two questionable cylinders. What do they look like ?

As and FYI......when I installed my Katech valve covers a cuple years ago, my enthusiasm to start the car overshadowed the fact that I forgot to plug in the wiring harness for the drivers side coil packs. The car STILL fired up and ran and idled, but obviously threw a few codes and shook a bit

FNBADAZ06's form of AFM/Dod ?????

[ChadC]

So.....pull he plugs on the two questionable cylinders. What do they look like ?

LOL just as im posting Victor, I see you post this.

SON OF A BITCH..

well im in my work clothes, I cant get "too deep" with out getting greasy and sweaty.

"hey Ill plug the plugs and see what the tips look like!, and reseat check the boots too"

this is what I find

wow..

now i knowyou are asking "chad how did you do that?"

and my response is

The way i always do plugs

with an air gun set to 300psi

..and red lock tight

.....and a 2 foot breaker bar

........rotate 180* after I hear metal crunching

time for new plugs, and hoping this is the only head on this dragon that I have to slay.

..wish me luck

P.S. the plugs on the other 2 look fine. Ill check the driver side too just to be safe.

[FNBADAZ06]

Good deal !!!! Sometimes it's easy to overlook the really simple stuff first. I've seen people bang the electrode on the cylinder head while installing, closing up the spark gap, as well as overtightning and cracking the insulator.

Easy fixes, though !!!!!

I'd pull all eight, if it were me, just to confirm you didn't crack insulators on the others as well. It would be a bitch to chase gremlins in the charging system well after the fact.

Do I win any kind of prize ?

[Shifty]

Holy chit!

[ChadC]

Do I win any kind of prize ?

yes, you get the antidote when its time.