C4 conversion to LS3 hot cam

[ChadC]

come home safe and sound

[C4orce2]

Update as of 5-22-10: Instead of being able to spend a month at home and seeing the car completed, I have to return to Albania on 5/23/10 and be there until 7/2/10. Once again I will have to watch the progress from thousands of miles away on the Corvette Restoration webcams. Next week the engineer who designed the computer interface will be working on the car and will complete the wiring and installation of the interface. We decided to mount the new computer directly below the old one since the cruise control equipment is no longer there. The new fuse box will be located underneath the left headlight. All the wiring is complete with the exception of what Kim wants the engineer to do after he hooks up his equipment to test everything out before lighting the candle. Once the bugs have been worked out on the computers and wiring, its off to the transmission shop. Whole project should be completed within the next two weeks or so and I fully expect to come home of 7/2/10 and find the car waiting in my garage.

If all goes as planned I will take it to the Pavilions for vette night on July 3rd. The Vette Whisperer is also planning on being there to discuss what was done if anyone is interested. If those plans change, I'll post that. I will also be getting some new photos soon and will have Eddie post them for me.

Thanks for your interest. It will not be long now.

Great news! I have just been informed that late in the afternoon on Thursday, 5/27/10, Kim Madsen started the car for the first time since 3/4/10 (when the optispark failed). According to the Vette Whisperer the car started right up and sounds fabulous. Wish I could have been there. If they were able to take any pictures or a video of the event, I will have Eddie post them for me.

[TheCMSH]

Great news!

[Ted Y]

Sweet!

[Guest Sunstroked]

This has been one of my considerations since reading about project Cforce in corvette fever. Question, So, do you have to use the stock computer to interface with the new one. Why can you not just use a computer from a car or truck that had an LS engine and simply reprogram it to work as a stand alone unit? I understand you would need a different pedal assembly but from what I understand you haven't been able to utilize the ASR or the cruise control anyway. I imagine programming cooling fans etc would have to be done but what else am I missing? I take it you're running an automatic? If I go ahead with my project I will keep mine a manual. Not sure exactly what going to be involved but I read somewhere that a new clutch/press plate and flywheel will have to be mated to account for the difference in an LS block to the Gen 2 block.

[Guest 1FASTC4]

I'm sure this will ultimately turn out to be a monster but what a mess. If something goes wrong, it has to go to the shop... that looks like a nightmare for any DIY'er. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished version all cleaned up!

I'd like to hear this baby run. At 500+ HP I bet it sounds like a real beast.

Funny, we went opposite ways to accomplish comparable results. We'll have to "compare" at the track:

[C4orce2]

This has been one of my considerations since reading about project Cforce in corvette fever.

Question, So, do you have to use the stock computer to interface with the new one. Why can you not just use a computer from a car or truck that had an LS engine and simply reprogram it to work as a stand alone unit? I understand you would need a different pedal assembly but from what I understand you haven't been able to utilize the ASR or the cruise control anyway. I imagine programming cooling fans etc would have to be done but what else am I missing?

I take it you're running an automatic? If I go ahead with my project I will keep mine a manual. Not sure exactly what going to be involved but I read somewhere that a new clutch/press plate and flywheel will have to be mated to account for the difference in an LS block to the Gen 2 block.

I'm afraid I will have to defer that qustion to Kim Madsen. I certainly am not a DIY guy, I am only a "Pay for it" kinda guy, and have to rely on the advice of others. As I understand it, there are many functions that had to remain under the control of the old computer. In fact about the only function the new computer controls is the engine. However, unless the old computer thinks it is still controlling the engine, it will not be able to control the other functions. So the trick was to make the old computer believe it is still controlling the engine when it is not. That is were the interface comes in. If that does not make any sense its most likely due to my ignorance.

Assuming I can show the car at the 7/3/10 Vette Night at the Pavilions, Kim said he would be there also to answer questions like this. This week its going to the tranny shop to modify the automatic so it operates separate from the engine. Then there are a few minor details to take care of so last report it will be ready well in advance of my return to the States on 7/1/10. I will post whether or not that will happen.

[Guest vette whisperer]

This has been one of my considerations since reading about project Cforce in corvette fever.

Question, So, do you have to use the stock computer to interface with the new one. Why can you not just use a computer from a car or truck that had an LS engine and simply reprogram it to work as a stand alone unit? I understand you would need a different pedal assembly but from what I understand you haven't been able to utilize the ASR or the cruise control anyway. I imagine programming cooling fans etc would have to be done but what else am I missing?

I take it you're running an automatic? If I go ahead with my project I will keep mine a manual. Not sure exactly what going to be involved but I read somewhere that a new clutch/press plate and flywheel will have to be mated to account for the difference in an LS block to the Gen 2 block.

I'm afraid I will have to defer that qustion to Kim Madsen. I certainly am not a DIY guy, I am only a "Pay for it" kinda guy, and have to rely on the advice of others. As I understand it, there are many functions that had to remain under the control of the old computer. In fact about the only function the new computer controls is the engine. However, unless the old computer thinks it is still controlling the engine, it will not be able to control the other functions. So the trick was to make the old computer believe it is still controlling the engine when it is not. That is were the interface comes in. If that does not make any sense its most likely due to my ignorance.

Assuming I can show the car at the 7/3/10 Vette Night at the Pavilions, Kim said he would be there also to answer questions like this. This week its going to the tranny shop to modify the automatic so it operates separate from the engine. Then there are a few minor details to take care of so last report it will be ready well in advance of my return to the States on 7/1/10. I will post whether or not that will happen.

Test post from Kim Ian Madsen the Vette Whisperer...

On the question regarding the computers on the CForce, basically we have a '92 computer which controlled the old LT1 engine and the digital dash functions, speaking in computer language like MS DOS, the new LS motor is like Windows 2007. So, the trick is in order to retain the digital functions, we need to interface the two computers to function as one. We have accomplished that Thursday afternoon after rigorous testing we spun the motor for three seconds and it immediately fired up! As we were able to fit three inch exhaust from the headers back from the cats and out the back, the engine sounded spectacular. We also video, but Nikki was unable to compress the files this week, but we will try and get it posted next week. As recent photos will show, there is no longer a "spaghetti" mess of wiring servicing the engine compartment. Any splices that were done, were solder and shrink wrapped. No weather pak connectors were messed with. This should be a very durable wiring system not affected by heat or moisture. There is a few functions left to work out i.e. A/C controls and a few other miscellaneous things that are on my list at the shop that I cannot remember at this time.

[Eddie44]

You did such a great job cleaning up the wiring that I took the liberty of cleaning up the test posts.

[Guest vette whisperer]

This has been one of my considerations since reading about project Cforce in corvette fever.

Question, So, do you have to use the stock computer to interface with the new one. Why can you not just use a computer from a car or truck that had an LS engine and simply reprogram it to work as a stand alone unit? I understand you would need a different pedal assembly but from what I understand you haven't been able to utilize the ASR or the cruise control anyway. I imagine programming cooling fans etc would have to be done but what else am I missing?

I take it you're running an automatic? If I go ahead with my project I will keep mine a manual. Not sure exactly what going to be involved but I read somewhere that a new clutch/press plate and flywheel will have to be mated to account for the difference in an LS block to the Gen 2 block.

I'm afraid I will have to defer that qustion to Kim Madsen. I certainly am not a DIY guy, I am only a "Pay for it" kinda guy, and have to rely on the advice of others. As I understand it, there are many functions that had to remain under the control of the old computer. In fact about the only function the new computer controls is the engine. However, unless the old computer thinks it is still controlling the engine, it will not be able to control the other functions. So the trick was to make the old computer believe it is still controlling the engine when it is not. That is were the interface comes in. If that does not make any sense its most likely due to my ignorance.

Assuming I can show the car at the 7/3/10 Vette Night at the Pavilions, Kim said he would be there also to answer questions like this. This week its going to the tranny shop to modify the automatic so it operates separate from the engine. Then there are a few minor details to take care of so last report it will be ready well in advance of my return to the States on 7/1/10. I will post whether or not that will happen.

Test post from Kim Ian Madsen the Vette Whisperer...

On the question regarding the computers on the CForce, basically we have a '92 computer which controlled the old LT1 engine and the digital dash functions, speaking in computer language like MS DOS, the new LS motor is like Windows 2007. So, the trick is in order to retain the digital functions, we need to interface the two computers to function as one. We have accomplished that Thursday afternoon after rigorous testing we spun the motor for three seconds and it immediately fired up! As we were able to fit three inch exhaust from the headers back from the cats and out the back, the engine sounded spectacular. We also video, but Nikki was unable to compress the files this week, but we will try and get it posted next week. As recent photos will show, there is no longer a "spaghetti" mess of wiring servicing the engine compartment. Any splices that were done, were solder and shrink wrapped. No weather pak connectors were messed with. This should be a very durable wiring system not affected by heat or moisture. There is a few functions left to work out i.e. A/C controls and a few other miscellaneous things that are on my list at the shop that I cannot remember at this time.

Next week is tying up loose ends and reconfiguring transmission to function properly. Luckily we have CForce serial one as Allan Colvin and Allan Colvin with all his resources are totally behind this project. Our project electrical engineer is Wes Birch who has been invaluable in doing aqll the heavy lifting. Within forty eight hours after picking him at the airport, the engine was running. I made Wes an offer he couldn't refuse and he has to agree to join the straff at Corvette Restoration AZ. The next project we may work on creating a device to replace the opti spark with a hall effect magnetic ignition replacement. Also, we will be releasing a press release shortly comfirming that Allan Colvin has left as editor of "Corvette Fever" magazine to join our CRAZ and Vette Whisperer team. Some pretty exciting stuff is happening.

[Grape Ape]

Great to have you aboard with us Kim. And great news about Alan joining your crew. Might have to take a day and come see your shop. Thanks for keeping us updated on this project.

[Two Fangs]

Alan Colvin's books titled "Chevrolet by the Numbers" have been an invaluable resource to restorers for years. Getting him out here from Florida is awesome, Kim! I think he is going to be a tremendous asset to the team, along with Wes of course. Regards, Parker

[C4orce2]

This has been one of my considerations since reading about project Cforce in corvette fever.

Question, So, do you have to use the stock computer to interface with the new one. Why can you not just use a computer from a car or truck that had an LS engine and simply reprogram it to work as a stand alone unit? I understand you would need a different pedal assembly but from what I understand you haven't been able to utilize the ASR or the cruise control anyway. I imagine programming cooling fans etc would have to be done but what else am I missing?

I take it you're running an automatic? If I go ahead with my project I will keep mine a manual. Not sure exactly what going to be involved but I read somewhere that a new clutch/press plate and flywheel will have to be mated to account for the difference in an LS block to the Gen 2 block.

I'm afraid I will have to defer that qustion to Kim Madsen. I certainly am not a DIY guy, I am only a "Pay for it" kinda guy, and have to rely on the advice of others. As I understand it, there are many functions that had to remain under the control of the old computer. In fact about the only function the new computer controls is the engine. However, unless the old computer thinks it is still controlling the engine, it will not be able to control the other functions. So the trick was to make the old computer believe it is still controlling the engine when it is not. That is were the interface comes in. If that does not make any sense its most likely due to my ignorance.

Assuming I can show the car at the 7/3/10 Vette Night at the Pavilions, Kim said he would be there also to answer questions like this. This week its going to the tranny shop to modify the automatic so it operates separate from the engine. Then there are a few minor details to take care of so last report it will be ready well in advance of my return to the States on 7/1/10. I will post whether or not that will happen.

Quick update as of 6/5/10, after looking at the brakes which I had not touched since buying the car in May of 08, we decided that with all the new power we should replace all of them. So before sending the car to the tranny shop for modifications, Kim's shop went ahead and completely replaced all the brake components. The car is going to the tranny shop on 6/7 and will be back at the Vette Whisperer's shop late next week for a few more days final clean up. The car will be ready for me well before my return to the States on 7/1 and Kim and I are still planning on showing up at the 7/3 Vette night at the Pav. If I get new pics I will have Eddie post them.

Larry

On the question regarding the computers on the CForce, basically we have a '92 computer which controlled the old LT1 engine and the digital dash functions, speaking in computer language like MS DOS, the new LS motor is like Windows 2007. So, the trick is in order to retain the digital functions, we need to interface the two computers to function as one. We have accomplished that Thursday afternoon after rigorous testing we spun the motor for three seconds and it immediately fired up! As we were able to fit three inch exhaust from the headers back from the cats and out the back, the engine sounded spectacular. We also video, but Nikki was unable to compress the files this week, but we will try and get it posted next week. As recent photos will show, there is no longer a "spaghetti" mess of wiring servicing the engine compartment. Any splices that were done, were solder and shrink wrapped. No weather pak connectors were messed with. This should be a very durable wiring system not affected by heat or moisture. There is a few functions left to work out i.e. A/C controls and a few other miscellaneous things that are on my list at the shop that I cannot remember at this time.

Next week is tying up loose ends and reconfiguring transmission to function properly. Luckily we have CForce serial one as Allan Colvin and Allan Colvin with all his resources are totally behind this project. Our project electrical engineer is Wes Birch who has been invaluable in doing aqll the heavy lifting. Within forty eight hours after picking him at the airport, the engine was running. I made Wes an offer he couldn't refuse and he has to agree to join the straff at Corvette Restoration AZ. The next project we may work on creating a device to replace the opti spark with a hall effect magnetic ignition replacement. Also, we will be releasing a press release shortly comfirming that Allan Colvin has left as editor of "Corvette Fever" magazine to join our CRAZ and Vette Whisperer team. Some pretty exciting stuff is happening.

[C4orce2]

I just received a photo from the Vette Whisperer showing some of what he and Wes were able to accomplish while Wes was in the shop working on my car two weeks ago. Eddie will post it. You will see that most of the wiring mess from both harnesses is gone. They now believe that after we put the carbon fiber rail covers and chrome on the engine, virtually all the wiring will be hidden just like on a stock model. The car is on its way to the tranny shop now for the modification of the tranny. More updates to come.

[Eddie44]

[Buccaneer]

Kim showed me the C4orce a while ago when it was still shoved into the other paint booth in pieces. Glad to see that it is finally coming together and can't wait to see how it runs. Keep us posted.

[C4orce2]

Kim showed me the C4orce a while ago when it was still shoved into the other paint booth in pieces. Glad to see that it is finally coming together and can't wait to see how it runs. Keep us posted.

I'm glad to report to you that the car you saw was C4orce I, not my car. Alan's original idealfor the C4orce project was to buy an old C4, install a LS engine, and refurbish the entire car for less than $15,000. That's why the car you saw was in pieces. The LS engine in it is a 5.3L engine from a GM truck with about 100,000 miles on it. I believe they paid about $800 for the engine. My car is being designated as C4orce II simply because it includes a LS engine. Of course mine is a LS3 "hot cam" and cost around $8,000 including the kit. I'm afraid the cost of my conversion well exceeds their total cost in C4orce I, but then my car started out in much better condition than C4orce I in every way. Kim and Alan want to display both C4orce cars at various shows and I am sure Kim would be glad to show you the status of C4orce I any time since it is still in his shop

Assuming my car is ready when I return to the States on 7/1 (Kim has indicated that it definitely will), Kim and I will be at Vette Night at the Pavilions on 7/3 to show the finished product to anyone who is interested. Kim will answer the questions and I'll just stand around and sweat. Hope to see you there.

[Buccaneer]

Kim showed me the C4orce a while ago when it was still shoved into the other paint booth in pieces. Glad to see that it is finally coming together and can't wait to see how it runs. Keep us posted.

I'm glad to report to you that the car you saw was C4orce I, not my car. Alan's original idealfor the C4orce project was to buy an old C4, install a LS engine, and refurbish the entire car for less than $15,000. That's why the car you saw was in pieces. The LS engine in it is a 5.3L engine from a GM truck with about 100,000 miles on it. I believe they paid about $800 for the engine. My car is being designated as C4orce II simply because it includes a LS engine. Of course mine is a LS3 "hot cam" and cost around $8,000 including the kit. I'm afraid the cost of my conversion well exceeds their total cost in C4orce I, but then my car started out in much better condition than C4orce I in every way. Kim and Alan want to display both C4orce cars at various shows and I am sure Kim would be glad to show you the status of C4orce I any time since it is still in his shop

Assuming my car is ready when I return to the States on 7/1 (Kim has indicated that it definitely will), Kim and I will be at Vette Night at the Pavilions on 7/3 to show the finished product to anyone who is interested. Kim will answer the questions and I'll just stand around and sweat. Hope to see you there.

Oh, my bad on the C4orce II vs. I. Yep saw the first one then. I'd love to go to the Pav on the 3rd, but I'll be in NM then for the holiday.

[C4orce2]

Kim showed me the C4orce a while ago when it was still shoved into the other paint booth in pieces. Glad to see that it is finally coming together and can't wait to see how it runs. Keep us posted.

I'm glad to report to you that the car you saw was C4orce I, not my car. Alan's original idealfor the C4orce project was to buy an old C4, install a LS engine, and refurbish the entire car for less than $15,000. That's why the car you saw was in pieces. The LS engine in it is a 5.3L engine from a GM truck with about 100,000 miles on it. I believe they paid about $800 for the engine. My car is being designated as C4orce II simply because it includes a LS engine. Of course mine is a LS3 "hot cam" and cost around $8,000 including the kit. I'm afraid the cost of my conversion well exceeds their total cost in C4orce I, but then my car started out in much better condition than C4orce I in every way. Kim and Alan want to display both C4orce cars at various shows and I am sure Kim would be glad to show you the status of C4orce I any time since it is still in his shop

Assuming my car is ready when I return to the States on 7/1 (Kim has indicated that it definitely will), Kim and I will be at Vette Night at the Pavilions on 7/3 to show the finished product to anyone who is interested. Kim will answer the questions and I'll just stand around and sweat. Hope to see you there.

Oh, my bad on the C4orce II vs. I. Yep saw the first one then. I'd love to go to the Pav on the 3rd, but I'll be in NM then for the holiday.

Have a great holiday in NM. When I'm in the States I do as much with the car as I can so I'm sure I will be at several ACE events in the future. See you then.

[C4orce2]

If anyone is interested, I have created an album in the member gallery entitle "Build of C4orce II". In that album I have posted lots of pics concerning the build. I will add pics there as they become available. Thanks

[C4orce2]

Update as of 6/15/10, looks like all the brake work is done and the new brackets holding the new fuse box and new computer are done and installed. Car will be going to tranny shop soon and then back for finishing touches. The computer interface most likely will not be installed until July, hopefully when I'm in town so I can meet Wes. However, I've been told that I can drive the car safely without the interface since only a few of the readings such as RPM may not be totally accurate without it. Kim said all the really important functions and readings on the car will work properly without the interface. Assuming that holds true and the car is done when I get back on 7/1, Kim and I will be at the Pavilions on 7/3 for Vette Night. As I get more pics I will put them in the member gallery in the albam entitled "Build of C4orce II". I have left instructions on how to view that album so you can see the pics in the proper order.

[C4orce2]

Update as of 6/20/10: The Vette Whisperer decided to do the tranny work in-house as opposed to taking it elsewhere since his crew had time to do it. It will still need to go to the the tranny shop for about 2 hours to have it calibrated. So all that is left is the minor clean up of the engine, ie rail covers, chrome, hiding of harnesses, before the car is complete. It does appear that the car will be in my garage when I return late on 7/1 and Kim and I will be out at the Pavillions for "vette night" on 7/3. Wes is coming back into town with the computer interface and install it and make any final adjustments during the first two weeks of July so by 7/15 the car will be 100% and better than new. If anyone is curious about the car, come out on 7/3. If plans change I will post the same. I will also post the final pics in the Members Gallery in the album "Build of C4orce II".

[C4orce2]

Update 6/23/10: The Vette Whisperer is nearly finished with the car. This afternoon I was able to watch via webcam (from my office in Albania) that about 2:30 in the afternoon the car was off the lift for the first time since April. Kim took it on a test drive for 40 minutes. When it came back it did so under its own power, not hauled back to the shop and not pushed into the shop (both good signs)! It appeared when he returned he did not even have to check anything under the hood so I assume all went well on the test drive. I have asked for an update and should have one soon but I do not expect any surprises. It was great seeing the car moving under the power of the new LS3 hot cam for the first time. Looks very good for Kim and I to have the car at the Pavillions on "vette night" on 7/3. Once I firm that up with Kim early next week, I will post it in the "events" forum in case anyone wants to see the car that night. It will still be missing the computer interface, some of the harnesses will not be burried until the interface is in place, and some of the chrome dress will not be on, but everyone will be able to see what Kim and his crew did.

[C4orce2]

July 4th update. I've had the car now for three days and put about 250 miles on it. Even though the computer interface has not been installed yet, the car runs great. The modifications to the tranny turned out just right with shift points exactly the way I like them and the kick down working pefectly. The car is running surprisingly cool. A couple of the gauges are not fully functioning but Kim gave me a Raytek minitemp to use and check out the actual temps all over the engine to verify everything is OK. The computer interface will be installed in the next two weeks and that will complete the conversion. At that point everything will be fully functional. The only features from the LT1 that we did not keep were traction control and cruise control, neither of which mattered to me. Kim and I were at the Pavilions on 7/3/10 but very few cars were there. Since I do not know very many ACE members personally I am not sure whether anyone saw the car of not. Kim had one of his other builds at the show and both cars got a lot of attention. This week the car goes to a photo shoot to be used in a calendar the "Vette Whisperer" is puttng out. Then of Friday it goes to the first Fast Glass Corvette Club meeting to show the other club members. I plan on attending as many ACE events as I can and will be happy to show the car to anyone there. As soon as they are done, I will post the final pics of the conversion to my album "Build of C4orce II" in the members gallery.

[Bigfoot]

Sounds awesome dude. I didn't make it to the Pavs, but I can't wait to see her.