Cross Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 Me either but were back and it's time to see what's happened while we were gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VetteSthetics Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Elliot, If you have not sold your tickets or Bondudant will not refund your money, come out and you guys can drive my car around a bit. I know its not much but at least you will get some use out of the day(s). Let me know. COngrats on the wedding!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z O SICK Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Cross,Sorry for the bad luck! Hope it all turns out good for you. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 Joe has been on top of it seems the intake runners all have cracks from the porting PRC did. Between Joe and John they have done an outstanding job while I was gone excellent customer service by Joe @ CPR. Talk about dedication Joe thank you again for the service you provide. Seems like we should know today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dvl4evr Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Sorry to hear about the troubles! I think I might have an answer as to why you're having the issues. THE CAR IS CURSED! lol. J/k. I hope she has a speedy recovery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 I hope she does to this is BS dammit! Poppa you told me it was my car now not that you cursed it!!! Either way Joe and John have been on top of it, they have been waiting for a reply from PRC they sent them a bunch of pictures each Intake Runner was so over ported the Intake Rocker Mount Holes all broke through the Intake runners. I added more pictures to the first post. I really hope we get an answer today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I gotta say that those heads look far from being overported. Having the stud holes protrude into the intake port and having the bosses relieved is nothing new. I hope you get this sorted, I really feel bad this happened. Since you have a side still together, I would certainly recheck for coil bind and PTV with a set of solid lifters. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 I think you are right I was talking to Steve today about dropping the motor off but then realized that since Larry's did the build and I would need them to order the pieces to replace the piston and possibly rod I should I need to that it makes since to just give it to them to get started. I will just remove the motor as it sits, give it to them and then let them check everything about the failure because I agree after looking I am not convinced its over porting but then I am still not sure what to think other than I don't think he messed up the push rod measurements all that badly either. (If at all) I will be sending the other head to Texas Speed so they can take a look at that head as they said they would. Hopefully this ends everything and gives a clear answer while also getting the motor back on its way to being fixed. It could also drive me fucking bat shit but well I am married now so thats ok right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 What I do not know is whether the heads were milled, and what the rocker geometry is. Regardless, you will want to ensure that any measurements taken regarding valvetrain with the engine in a static condition were done with solid lifters (or hydraulics that were filled with epoxy or welded to make them solid). I am sure that if you have faith in Larry's, they will treat you right and give you the informsation you need. Pretty sure I asked already, but what is the lift on the cam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe@cpr.com Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ya the heads ported to have the rocker arm bolt stick through is nothing new at all like parker said and I did on the phone earlier today. Parker the heads were milled thirty thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Joe, do you know if they were angle-milled, or did they just take 0.030 off the whole deck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Is this still the cam for this motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Sorry I have been dealing with so many different aspects Joe's right we did talk about the rocker bolts. I am not sure on the angle but I do know that John went about making a solid lifter would be a lot easier if he was explaining things because going through so many different sides is really starting to get hard to understand. As for Larry's they seem to have done a great job on the motor originally when Chris had it done I figured why change that. Plus they are about 100 miles closer lol. I like the gas mileage of my FRS but I don't know that I could get an LS Block in it. Oh and yes thats still the cam in the motor, the same one Chris asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 If that is the cam, I hope you had some bad assed springs. Those LSR lobes are absolutely no joke. They accelerate the shit out of the valve. Without valve control (too light a spring or too heavy a valve, or both), I can certainly see bending a valve stem and ending up where you're at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe@cpr.com Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Joe, do you know if they were angle-milled, or did they just take 0.030 off the whole deck? Just the standard mill. We ordered these heads a long time ago for a camaro that ended going with an agp tt kit and therfore didn't want to use these because of the cost to benefit ratio. I refunded him the money on these and kept them on the shelf knowing I would easily be able to sell these in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 If that is the cam, I hope you had some bad assed springs. Those LSR lobes are absolutely no joke. They accelerate the shit out of the valve. Without valve control (too light a spring or too heavy a valve, or both), I can certainly see bending a valve stem and ending up where you're at.Wait so these heads were not right for my build then basically? My Understanding is that they have .675 Springs and Stainless Steel Valves. Joe, do you know if they were angle-milled, or did they just take 0.030 off the whole deck? Just the standard mill. We ordered these heads a long time ago for a camaro that ended going with an agp tt kit and therfore didn't want to use these because of the cost to benefit ratio. I refunded him the money on these and kept them on the shelf knowing I would easily be able to sell these in the future. I should start writing all these things down on a cheat sheet for myself lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 0.675 does not tell me anything really. You need to find out the seat and open pressures, along with the spring rate. If you were using stock valves, you need a spring with around 160 pounds on the seat and 460 open, and a rate of over 500 pounds per inch. If you were using some sortof crazy assed heavy duty valve, you need closer to 180 (200 even better) on the seat and 550 open with a rate of 600 pounds per inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Thanks for the clarification on the mill, Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe@cpr.com Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ya these were the prc springs they recommended with those valves. They came fully assembled from prc. Simple as that, the cam I was going to run had a pretty fast ramp rate but not crazy duration as it had to drive perfect. So it was one ed was going to rely on lift to get some numbers out of it. As you know parker ed uses all lunati valvetrain but he even said those springs would be fine for what I was intending for on that build. (the ls3 car) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 0.675 does not tell me anything really. You need to find out the seat and open pressures, along with the spring rate. If you were using stock valves, you need a spring with around 160 pounds on the seat and 460 open, and a rate of over 500 pounds per inch. If you were using some sortof crazy assed heavy duty valve, you need closer to 180 (200 even better) on the seat and 550 open with a rate of 600 pounds per inch.I have no idea maybe Joe can answer this as he ordered them for someone elses build and I didn't change them as I was under the impression they were perfect for my setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Wait so these heads were not right for my build then basically? I am sure the heads were fine for your build. The springs on the headds are another story. Can't blame anyone for the heads being wrong unless you ensured they speced a spring for your cam with aggressive as shit lobes and then they ordered the wrong thing. If those lobes were never addressed, then that is a mistake on your part, IMHO. You should have ensured the builder (I am still confused, is that CPR?) had a spec card for your cam. I also saw Joe's reply as I was editing this, and Lunatis are really good, but can't compare to some of the other stuff out there that could have controlled the valvetrain. With those Lunatis not allowing for valve control, I am assuming the heads had a heavier than stock valve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe@cpr.com Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ya if someone had something really radical I would use the Brian Tooleys high seat pressure ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I am still not sure of the whole spec on this deal, but if those Lunatis did not control the valve, this thing must have some severe duty stainless Manleys or some sort of heavy China valve, perhaps? Knowing that cam, I would have gotten ahold of Tooley, for sure. Were you aware of the cam specs? Not trying to put you on the spot, or place blame or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe@cpr.com Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 I knew lift and duration from when he was talking to you and me about specing out a new cam. I did not know lobes design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Wait so these heads were not right for my build then basically? I am sure the heads were fine for your build. The springs on the headds are another story. Can't blame anyone for the heads being wrong unless you ensured they speced a spring for your cam with aggressive as shit lobes and then they ordered the wrong thing. If those lobes were never addressed, then that is a mistake on your part, IMHO. You should have ensured the builder (I am still confused, is that CPR?) had a spec card for your cam. I also saw Joe's reply as I was editing this, and Lunatis are really good, but can't compare to some of the other stuff out there that could have controlled the valvetrain. With those Lunatis not allowing for valve control, I am assuming the heads had a heavier than stock valve? Joe knows the build but it was built for Chris by Larry's and Loud Pedal then I bought it. I was there when it was tuned and NicD said to go to LS3 Heads. Joe teased about a better cam making better power. We have spoken about it a few times I just was not in any rush to change it until I put the car on the Dyno and got the results I did with the new heads. So yes I would say Joe was aware of the cam specs as we spoke about the cam a few times before I bought the heads. Not trying to point blame I am just looking to not waste time, if PRC is going to come to the same conclusion then whats the point of sending the heads to them? Wait you guys are already talking about this I can't keep up lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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