ChadC Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 ....I don't need new heads. I just need to helicoil the hole that is stripped out. I know you are upset and frustrated. There are a lot of opinions being thrown at you right now bud. I make this suggestion to you. You have already heli coil the head once, and it failed. now you want to go bigger heli coil. Heli coil is a nice stop gap, shade tree, Just-Get-Me-By solution, but it is not the proper way. what im suggesting to you, is to pause, and look at the right long haul solution. -pull the header, and replace the single head only. - my 2 ctscheerschad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Exactly as Chad said...it's teh right way to do it. It sucks, but it will save you down teh line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The first heli-coil is on the drivers side according to his first post, the new problem is passenger side. Really need Michael to reply or Doug (who hates C4's ) to jump in here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bromley's Corvettes Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The header can be removed with out touching the a/c. I have done engine installs and headers on C-4s and its a pain but can be done. I would see if the head can be repaired with a heli coil or nut sert or even welded and then drilled and tapped. Not likely you can get enough room to do it on the car so sounds like you will be pulling the head off. You can take it to a machine shop and have them fix it for you or find another good head and just swap it. I would not pull the engine out just to fix one head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 What Doug said... You need a crow foot wrench and a little patience - the pass. Side header will come out from the bottom. Left side has to come thru the top. Starter removal will help with a little more room. May need to inch the car up in the air until it clears, but it can be done on a floor jack. I would avoid disconnecting a/c and helicoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 You need one of these:http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/1988-Corvette-Repair-Shop-Manual-Original-P14282.aspx?source=googleps&gclid=CPzStYKvvLkCFYl_QgodomMArA At teh very least, a friendly connect with your favorite Chevy parts counterman might get you some blowups. If that doesn't work, let me know, I've got a pal at O'Rielly Chevy here in Tucson, I could fax them to you.So your the one visiting my wife at work I would really suggest going to Doug if you don't feel you can do this yourself. However the option of taking the head off does seem like the right one, but if you can get in there and weld then re-tap it you might as well do so. I am not so sure to be honest as I have not seen what it looks like under a TPI C4 with headers. However it seems most here have assured you it can come off through the bottom and then you can access your problem area and see if you can weld it, I would think you have a shot at doing so. I would be happy to help but it sounds like your in Phoenix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I'm going to add this also, if you have it up on jack stands - it is a big time saver to pull the wheels, and then the inner fender skirts and heater H2o valve. You will gain a lot more access for a little extra work and it allows the a/c lines to move a lot more. Once header is off, the aggravation is not over. I have had both heads off to have them overhauled. B&B in Mesa did the work on the heads, but in all honesty - i should have had LPM do the engine R&R back then instead of the half measures to get another 50K miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unreal Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 If you are considering $2k to pull the motor, you can spend $1100 on some nice trickflow heads ready to go on, $200-300 in gaskets and fluids and just do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 You need one of these:http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/1988-Corvette-Repair-Shop-Manual-Original-P14282.aspx?source=googleps&gclid=CPzStYKvvLkCFYl_QgodomMArA At teh very least, a friendly connect with your favorite Chevy parts counterman might get you some blowups. If that doesn't work, let me know, I've got a pal at O'Rielly Chevy here in Tucson, I could fax them to you.So your the one visiting my wife at work I would really suggest going to Doug if you don't feel you can do this yourself. However the option of taking the head off does seem like the right one, but if you can get in there and weld then re-tap it you might as well do so. I am not so sure to be honest as I have not seen what it looks like under a TPI C4 with headers. However it seems most here have assured you it can come off through the bottom and then you can access your problem area and see if you can weld it, I would think you have a shot at doing so. I would be happy to help but it sounds like your in Phoenix. Wrong O'Rielly, unless Hector Moreno is your wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 There is only one Orielly Chevrolet in Tucson that I know of and Chey works there. Hector I think that's who I get parts through now. There was another guy they let go of I believe Mike who I dealt with normally in the parts department. Is Hector the guy all the way on the end after you enter the parts department? If so then yes that's who I went to when I ordered my new Window Regulator and other parts here recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 There is only one Orielly Chevrolet in Tucson that I know of and Chey works there. Hector I think that's who I get parts through now. There was another guy they let go of I believe Mike who I dealt with normally in the parts department. Is Hector the guy all the way on the end after you enter the parts department? If so then yes that's who I went to when I ordered my new Window Regulator and other parts here recently. So Mike is your wife? Sorry to nudge this off topic, but enquiring minds have to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 There is only one Orielly Chevrolet in Tucson that I know of and Chey works there. Hector I think that's who I get parts through now. There was another guy they let go of I believe Mike who I dealt with normally in the parts department. Is Hector the guy all the way on the end after you enter the parts department? If so then yes that's who I went to when I ordered my new Window Regulator and other parts here recently. So Mike is your wife? Sorry to nudge this off topic, but enquiring minds have to know... Not unless Mike goes by Chey and is one hell of a good looking Redhead woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Effort Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I recommend AZmotorhead. Phil did a bunch of work on my C4 a year ago. He does excellent work and is an ACE member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4in mesa Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Hedman ceramic coated EGR tubes all emissions legal. I found a shop in east Mesa who said they will take the header off and put it back on for $200. Tomorrow I'm gonna see if he wants to repair the stripped out hole. Its still not known if the head needs a heli arch weld or a heli coil ? I'm leaning towards welding it and tapping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4in mesa Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 You need one of these: http://www.faxonautoliterature.com/1988-Corvette-Repair-Shop-Manual-Original-P14282.aspx?source=googleps&gclid=CPzStYKvvLkCFYl_QgodomMArA At teh very least, a friendly connect with your favorite Chevy parts counterman might get you some blowups. If that doesn't work, let me know, I've got a pal at O'Rielly Chevy here in Tucson, I could fax them to you.So your the one visiting my wife at work I would really suggest going to Doug if you don't feel you can do this yourself. However the option of taking the head off does seem like the right one, but if you can get in there and weld then re-tap it you might as well do so. I am not so sure to be honest as I have not seen what it looks like under a TPI C4 with headers. However it seems most here have assured you it can come off through the bottom and then you can access your problem area and see if you can weld it, I would think you have a shot at doing so. I would be happy to help but it sounds like your in Phoenix. I will be driving to Tucson after this job is finished. Lets meet and talk shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Sounds good to me just let me know when your heading down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4in mesa Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 ....I don't need new heads. I just need to helicoil the hole that is stripped out. I know you are upset and frustrated. There are a lot of opinions being thrown at you right now bud. I make this suggestion to you. You have already heli coil the head once, and it failed. now you want to go bigger heli coil. Heli coil is a nice stop gap, shade tree, Just-Get-Me-By solution, but it is not the proper way. what im suggesting to you, is to pause, and look at the right long haul solution. -pull the header, and replace the single head only. - my 2 cts cheers chad The heli coil worked on the driver side. The engine was on a stand before it went in the car. This bolt issue came up after the engine was in the car. All that was done was a drill ran through the broken bolt tapped 3/8ths and the correct bolt put in. It held for 6,000 miles. I'm gonna pull the header and heli arch the hole. The million dollar question is will any of the 5remaining bolts break ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unreal Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 How about replacing all of them with ARP bolts while it is apart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 How about replacing all of them with ARP bolts while it is apart? Better yet, why not pull all of the header bolts and replace them with ARP studs? This will take the tension off of the threads that screw into the cylinder head and put that tension on on the threads that the nut screws onto, and the nut itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bromley's Corvettes Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 You would have to put the header in place then install the studs and the nuts wont fit on the center holes they will rub on the tube. If there was room it would be cool but you have to use bolts and having them with a 3/8 head rather then the standard 7/16 helps. You can also get them with a small allen in the middle so you can get them snug then use a wrench. There is so little room to work it kinda limits what you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4in mesa Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 The locking bolts from Summit would not fit either. When it was on the engine stand these bolts went in partly and had to be taken out because they would not snug up against the header tubes. It is 4 out of the 6 each side that we had to use the Hedman bolts. I was talking to my mechanic yes the same guy who forgot to install the correct bolt in the first place and the reason why i am dealing with this exhaust leak in the first place. He suggested I just wait and save the cash needed to pay for the entire engine to be pulled. What am I gonna do if any of the 5 bolts the stuck when the header is coming off ? I am going to pay someone to pull the engine and that is going to be more money than this headache is worth. Please understand why I am so frustrated. I have sunk $17,000 into this car. How much could I sell it for ? $6,000 ? $8,000 if I am extremely lucky ? And that is after it is fixed and back to a perfectly running car. Now I am looking at spending another $2,000 if the motor has to come out and then back in. So as many times in my life I have learned be prepared for the worst. I am going to drive this car with the tick tick of the exhaust leak and save my money for the whole engine to come out. If the bolts don't break then that is GREAT !!! If they do then I won't be stuck looking at a car I resent in my garage. I did call Cliff's Welding and they told me they will come to the car and heli arch the head. He said I will have to drill out the hole and make sure NO OTHER metal is in there before they fill it in with fresh aluminum. He told me the head does not have to come off to be filled in. Taking the head of would just add another $1000 or more to the job getting all the roller rocker arms correct. To access the head the whole top of the motor has to come off minus one runner. Hey why not just tear the whole engine apart again stroke it to 383 and then put brand new Edelbrock heads on $2,000 and put a super charger on it the kit is $5,000. Then rip out the automatic transmission and drop a 6 speed manual with a dana 44 rear end in. Another $4,000 plus labor $4,000. It really boils down to money. The whole point of this was to save money. If my pockets were that deep I would have just spent the cash and not even blinked about it. Now PLEASE don't think I am not extremely grateful to all of you for sharing your opinions. I am very very much. But in the end I am the idiot who has to pay for the fix. I also have to listen to my girlfriend tell me the obvious every time the subject comes up. All in stride because it does seem rather ridiculous. However I am going to keep this lemon unless someone were to steal it or T-bone me at a cross street. I will be at the Pavillions this Saturday. I am the guy who's Corvette ticks real bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Is there any way you could pull the motor yourself and save money on the labor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C4in mesa Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 I am the owner of a tiny set of tools I bought at Home Depot for less than $20. I don't have the experience or know how to even think of tackling a job more complicated than an oil change ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 ....... I also have to listen to my girlfriend tell me the obvious every time the subject comes up. pictures of the girlfriend so we can determine if its worth keeping her or the car ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Think about this too. When/if you get it welded, a new hole will need to be drilled and tapped, and be perfectly straight, and teh right depth to keep from hitting a water jacket. In an ideal sitiuation, that is done on a drill press and a fixture, and tapping a new hole is never fun in teh best of situations, and cutting into heli-arc weld is going to add to your diffculties. With as few miles as you have since teh header install, if teh bolts weren't threadlocked (terrible mistake on aluminum heads IMHO), then they shouldn't break off or strip if they weren't oevertightened in teh first place. I know it really sucks, but you've got to do it teh right way, or you're going to hate teh car even more when you have to do it anyway. BTW, you don't have to pull teh motor to pull one head, but sometimes it's easier in teh long run. When it comes time, use ARP header bolts, clean teh factory oil off with brake parts cleaner, and use high-heat copper permatex on teh threads-doesn't burn off, won't "lock" teh bolts in, but is just rubbery enough to keep them from backing out, which is a common problem with header bolts. Just remember to check them every time you change oil. I have a bunch of modified wrenches and sockets specifically for headers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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