Guest Sidewinder Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 4 17 if you put it all back together with no leaks and drive it for a while and it still has fuel trim issues it maybe be that the air flowing over the MAF being disrupted by the filter. This would not be the first time it has happened, even to ACE members. The car does not like turbulent air over the MAF. Drive it though, see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourseventeen Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 thanks guys. I havent taken it back out yet since I pulled the intake apart and put it back together. I started it in the garage for a few mins and the light hasnt came on yet but we will see when I drive it. Ill let you guys know what happens. Hopefully it just needs to learn the new air intake and it will self correct this weekend. If not then yup...back to stock it will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 thanks hoxxoh. could have did without the english lesson but the other info is helpful thanks. I opened up the shroud as well so its drawing some air from outside of the car but im sure is still pulling most air from under the hood. I pulled the battery cable, un installed the entire K&N system and went through it to make sure everything was installed right and put it back together. Ill drive it tonight and tomorrow to see how it goes. Thanks bud Get at least 100 miles on it without any changes. WOT doesn't count, so average driving is what you need to do. You may still have some slight loping returning to idle when the IAT is not the same as when you're moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourseventeen Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 Thanks HOX. What I was noticing was that if I get on the throttle and then let off and put the throttle back to a normal speed thats when I would notice the surge the most. I dont ever feel it when taking off from a light or when I get on the gas. Ill drive it some more and see what happens. check engine light didnt go on until I drove it for about 15 miles, turned it off, started it...drove 2 miles, turned it off, then drove home another 15 miles or so and turned it off. went to go leave again and the light was on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 4 17 if you put it all back together with no leaks and drive it for a while and it still has fuel trim issues it maybe be that the air flowing over the MAF being disrupted by the filter. This would not be the first time it has happened, even to ACE members. The car does not like turbulent air over the MAF. Drive it though, see what happens. Sidewinder is on the right track. This problem started developing when GM went to the slot style Mass Airflow Sensor. It is a Hitachi piece that is very sensitive, and this can be good and bad. The airflow across the slot style MAF must be laminar, flowing straightly and evenly. The best way to describe this is by looking at smoke that leaves a cigarette sitting in an ashtray. It travels straight upward at first, smoothly. Then, after a few inches, it begins to become turbulent and tumble. Tumbling air across a slot style MAF causes much larger fluctuations in the load the PCM calculates when compared to other GM styles. Once the air starts to tumble, the only way to straighten it is mechanically. This is why traditional Mass Airflow Sensors have a honeycomb device in front of the element, to try and straighted the airflow, much like the screen in your kithchen faucet. We all know what happens when you take the screen out of your faucet, the same principle applies here. The pressure across the surface area of the tube is unven and much more difficult to measure. By design, the air filter in the slot style MAF systems used in Corvettes help to straighten the airflow. Remove it, and all kinds of crazy shit starts to happen. The light is more than likely caused by the PCM seeing differences in the engine load values sent by the MAF when compared to the MAP sensor. Your choices are to either go back to stock, or to install a mechanical device to straighten the airflow, or live with the surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourseventeen Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 The surge I dont care for, its not bad and I dont notice it most of the time unless im really paying attention to it. What bothers me is the check engine light glowing in my face. According to K&N their system will not throw a check engine light if the kit is installed properly. BUT it appears to be installed perfect to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 The surge I dont care for, its not bad and I dont notice it most of the time unless im really paying attention to it. What bothers me is the check engine light glowing in my face. According to K&N their system will not throw a check engine light if the kit is installed properly. BUT it appears to be installed perfect to me. Are you 100% sure you have no air leaks after the MAF??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourseventeen Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 bout 99.9% sure. If I have some starting fluid id spray the area around the throttle body to make 100% sure. But yeah I have pulled the bridge and the silicone ring off the throttle body 4 times now and re seated it to make sure it was on properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Just a thought... And I don't know if the LS7 and LS1 are set up the same, but a buddy of mine tore the rubber grommet piece that attaches the PCV system to the passenger side of the intake manifold right behind the Throttle body. You couldn't see it as it tore on the bottom, but it was giving him hell until we found it. Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourseventeen Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 I didnt have to touch anything behind where the bridge connects to the throttle body and I didnt have this issue 2 days ago b4 the intake install. So im pretty sure at this point that it is the ECU freaking out with the huge amount of air the car is now getting with this system as opened up as it is compared to stock. Im going to drive it 100 miles or so and see what happens. If nothing changes I am either going to get rid of the K&N or I will take the car to get it tuned and toss my extended warrantee (which doesnt seem like the best idea to gain 20hp) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I didnt have to touch anything behind where the bridge connects to the throttle body and I didnt have this issue 2 days ago b4 the intake install. So im pretty sure at this point that it is the ECU freaking out with the huge amount of air the car is now getting with this system as opened up as it is compared to stock. Im going to drive it 100 miles or so and see what happens. If nothing changes I am either going to get rid of the K&N or I will take the car to get it tuned and toss my extended warrantee (which doesnt seem like the best idea to gain 20hp) It is not the additional air the car is injesting that is causing your issue. The issue is turbulent airflow. I have seen it many times, it seems especially bad on the SLP Blackwings and the K&Ns. If you want to run a cold air kit, the Killer Bee seems to provide the best overall power and drivability. Cheers, Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
az-gold Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Killer Bee does seem to be THE one CAI most complimented on the other forums. Does anyone know what Victor has on his Z? Victor.....are ya here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Killer Bee and Bee hive combo all the way Another issue I've been hearing about alot lately is the over oiled K&N filter elements that people have been recieving. The MAF's on the C6 Z06 seem to be more sensitive to filter oil residue than many other applications. Go to Autozone or Checker and have them pull the code(s)...they do this for free and the ODBC II port is located under the dash below the steering wheel. Code P0101 is a MAF error...if that's what you're getting, purchase some CRC MAF Sensor cleaner and clean the wire filament....BE VERY CAREFUL, as this wire is VERY fragile. FYI- the installation of the Killer Bee/Bee Hive combo threw no codes on my car...no tune, no nuthin'. My very biased opinion is to sell the K&N and get the Halltech product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccaneer Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Killer Bee and Bee hive combo all the way Another issue I've been hearing about alot lately is the over oiled K&N filter elements that people have been recieving. The MAF's on the C6 Z06 seem to be more sensitive to filter oil residue than many other applications. Go to Autozone or Checker and have them pull the code(s)...they do this for free and the ODBC II port is located under the dash below the steering wheel. Code P0101 is a MAF error...if that's what you're getting, purchase some CRC MAF Sensor cleaner and clean the wire filament....BE VERY CAREFUL, as this wire is VERY fragile. FYI- the installation of the Killer Bee/Bee Hive combo threw no codes on my car...no tune, no nuthin'. My very biased opinion is to sell the K&N and get the Halltech product. I'm not trying to hijack this thread and it is subject related kind of. Victor, are you using the Killer Bee and Bee Hive II and it doesn't require tuning, right? Did you see/feel SOTP dyno gain? It would have been nice to see the before and after on a dyno. The CF Killer bee says it needs tuning, are there big differences bewteen them? Also, I saw the CF hood port which is functional. Isn't the stock port functional? If its not, dosen't the addition of a functional port change the under hood dynamics as far as handling is concerned with higher pressure? Just wondering. Cool stuff anyway. Continue on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourseventeen Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 thanks again guys I appreciate the input. Guess I should have sprung for the extra cash for the KBII as opposed to saving 150.00 for the K&N kit. I have installed numerous K&N kits on other vehicles and not once every had an issue. Always had great experiences with K&N until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Killer Bee and Bee hive combo all the way Another issue I've been hearing about alot lately is the over oiled K&N filter elements that people have been recieving. The MAF's on the C6 Z06 seem to be more sensitive to filter oil residue than many other applications. Go to Autozone or Checker and have them pull the code(s)...they do this for free and the ODBC II port is located under the dash below the steering wheel. Code P0101 is a MAF error...if that's what you're getting, purchase some CRC MAF Sensor cleaner and clean the wire filament....BE VERY CAREFUL, as this wire is VERY fragile. FYI- the installation of the Killer Bee/Bee Hive combo threw no codes on my car...no tune, no nuthin'. My very biased opinion is to sell the K&N and get the Halltech product. I'm not trying to hijack this thread and it is subject related kind of. Victor, are you using the Killer Bee and Bee Hive II and it doesn't require tuning, right? Did you see/feel SOTP dyno gain? It would have been nice to see the before and after on a dyno. The CF Killer bee says it needs tuning, are there big differences bewteen them? Also, I saw the CF hood port which is functional. Isn't the stock port functional? If its not, dosen't the addition of a functional port change the under hood dynamics as far as handling is concerned with higher pressure? Just wondering. Cool stuff anyway. Continue on... Tom, I have the original Killer Bee on my car. The 2nd generation Killer Bee II does not require tuning either....the CF version does require a tune as it's a larger more agressive package. Because I had installed this package right when I bought my car and before I began my low 11 second quarter mile quest, I can't offer any real opinion on SOTP differences. I'm sure the package has lowered my AIT's, but I have no imperical data (data logging) on my car to back it up. The NACA duct on the nose of the Z06 is functional. THere are CAI kits and airbox mods that can be performed to increase the flow of outside air into the Killer Bee, but I'm running with a stock un-modified airbox at this time. I have heard of no negative impacts in the handling characterstics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourseventeen Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 BTW...someone on the CF asked if I cut the radiator shroud....would this cause the issue? At Sonic a few of us were talking and I was told to cut the shroud around the air filter to allow cold air to come in. Wonder if that is what could be causing the issues I am having?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 BTW...someone on the CF asked if I cut the radiator shroud....would this cause the issue? At Sonic a few of us were talking and I was told to cut the shroud around the air filter to allow cold air to come in. Wonder if that is what could be causing the issues I am having?? Did you cut the shroud ? I beleive I read something on the big forum regarding this mod and the concesus was that the turbulent airflow caused by this mod was an issue. There is an additional mod that adds a baffle to the airbox to smooth out the airflow as it enters the aircleaner area...do a search on the big forum for details. I think Mark (AirBusPilot) has some experieince with this...drop him a PM here or on CF and he can direct you to the proper info/link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I'm with Victor on this one, cutting the airbox did not help with the turbulence issues. Of course, I do not have direct experience on my Z06; my experience comes from working/tuning others. My air filters are behind the tail lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourseventeen Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Thanks again Victor. Before you arrived over at Sonic a few of us were chatting and they were saying to cut open the shroud or prop it up. Census there said to cut it open and if later down the road I wanted to put it back to stock a new shroud would cost me 35 bucks. Guess ill be popping for a new shroud sooner then I thought LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I'm sorry you ruined your Z. I'd be willing to take it off your hands. Considering the amount of work it will take for me to fix it, I'm sure we can come up with a good deal for me. Think it over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Turbulent air flow, hmmm. Two Snails, is that only a C6, or ZO6 problem or does it "exist" on C5 models as well. I have the Blackwing on mine and have never seen/felt this issue. On mine though, you can reall hear that air going in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
az-gold Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I'm sorry you ruined your Z. I'd be willing to take it off your hands. Considering the amount of work it will take for me to fix it, I'm sure we can come up with a good deal for me. Think it over... Ya know, I was thinkin' the same thing, but being ORANGE was holding me back. Ted, maybe we can have a "Paint my 'Vette" weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Turbulent air flow, hmmm. Two Snails, is that only a C6, or ZO6 problem or does it "exist" on C5 models as well. I have the Blackwing on mine and have never seen/felt this issue. On mine though, you can reall hear that air going in though. More of an LS3 and LS7 issue. We have had several on the flow bench and have a fix, but it isn't cheap. The new Hitachi MAF is just so sensitive that it picks up airflow perturbations that older style MAF sensors did not have the frequency resolution to capture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourseventeen Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 You guys crack me up. since I ruined my Z I will sell it for 35.00 (the cost of the shroud) less then excellent blue book LOL. BUT you also need to buy my wheels and exhaust I have on order...so add $8400.00 to that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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