E85: The Mystery, The Magic, The Fuel

[Two Fangs]

E85, the fuel the myth, the legend. Discuss...

This post has been promoted to an article

[FNBADAZ06]

Aaahhhh....E85. The fuel identifed at the pumps by the use of the yellow handle. What the heck is this stuff, and why would anyone want to use it as a fuel in their car ?

Alrighty then, let me get this statement out of the way before we begin this interesting topic........

It's not about politics, government, economics, tree hugging, corn as a food source, world hunger, or if we should be investing in other forms of renewable natural resources, FOR ME.

Ok, I got that out of the way and feel better already

So what is E85 fuel and why would anyone consider running it as a fuel in their high performance engine ?

Let's start with what exactly is E85 ?.

E85 in the U.S. is a fuel that consist of approximately 85% corn based ethanol and 15% gasoline. In Brazil, another larger producer of ethanol fuels like E85, the ethanol is sourced from sugar cane. Pretty simple...the ethanol is sourced from a natural renewable resource.

OK, so what....what does this have to due with my high performance LS engine ?

E85...specifically, the 85% ethanol fuel in the blend, has a VERY high Octane value...much like the expensive race fuels we talked about in another thread.

E85 is said to be comparable to a pump octane of somewhere between 105 to 109 octane, using the R+M/2 rating system.....well above the premium fuel octane of 91 pump fuel we have here in Arizona.

Ah, so it must be just as expensive as those other racing fuels, right ?

Actually, at this time, no. In fact, E85 is usually around .25 cents cheaper than regular 87 octane pump gas in Arizona and .40+ cents cheaper than 91 octane premium !!! In certain parts of the Country E85 can be .50 cents or more cheaper per gallon than 87 pump gas and almost a $1.00 cheaper than premium. By comparison, most race fuel products with an octane of 100 start at $10/gallon and go from there

Ok now.....cheap, renewable, high octane fuel. Sounds like a winner all the way around. What's the down side of running E85, as there certainly doesn't sound like any based on what we've talked about so far ?

There are several of them, actually...especially for us in Arizona :

1) AVAILABILITY - In Arizona, the first stumbling block is availability. In Phoenix, E85 is carried at no greater than 10 stations city wide....Tucson has a few more....but the bottom line is availability at the pump is scarce in Arizona.

2) OEM GM Tune - Another issue is tuning. GM does have an E85 compatable ECU and fueling system available in several models of vehicles they sell....the Flexfuel capabable option you see and read about. Sadly, this Flexfuel system is not available for the Corvette line of cars, and I'm not sure why.

3) FUEL ECONOMY - We will get into the specifcs of this part later when we talk about the composition of E85 and it's specific traits as a fuel, but generally speaking, E85 has less power potential per mass than gasoline...a less explosive "bang" per gallon than regular gasoline. To get the same amount of explosive power output out of your engine when running E85, you've got to use more of it. With more consumption of fuel per mile driven your gas milage will suffer badly...on the order of 25%+ or more E85 gets consumed per mile driven. This just ate up the price advantage it had at the pump by being substatially cheaper

4) OCTANE REQUIREMENTS - Does your engine really need the added octane here in Arizona to ward off pre-ignition and engine knock/ping ? Usually, no. As the Corvette come's from the factory they are generally tuned to run on 91 octane pump gas, with some engines like the LS9 and LS7 having a recommendation of 93 because of their higher dynamic compression ratios. For everyday driving when the engine experiences very light to moderate engine load, a stock engine with a stock tune will generally go about their business and you'd be no worse off.

OK, so were does this leave us....is E85 really any better of a fuel and where does any advantage come from running it ?

The potential advantage comes into play if your operating in a high engine load environment, like racing, or where you're looking to extract more power by tuning the ECU or adding performance parts to your LS engine that increases HP by radically increasing the cylinder pressures (like forced induction, installing a cam, upping the compression ratio, etc). All these things can lead to a requirement to up the octane rating of the fuel you use to keep pre-ignition and knock/ping at bay.

Also, keep in mind GM has to make compromises to the ECU fueling and spark curves to satisfy certain EPA mandates like MPG ratings and exhaust emissions...not always in step with producing the greatest amount of horsepower potential in your engine.

OK then......we can now get into the nitty gritty of discussing what traits E85 has as a fuel, and where it's use can substantially allow your engine to generate big horsepower when combined with the proper tuning and with additional performance parts, to up the cylinder pressure and create that bigger "bang" in the combustion chamber we all crave

[Two Fangs]

It's like you read my mind... http://www.arizonacorvetteenthusiasts.net/arizonavette/forums/index.php?showtopic=19256

[Two Fangs]

I merged the topics. I wanted to keep your title, but alas I am a moderating noob

[92ZR1Wannabe]

A cut and paste right off of Wikipedia pretty much sums up my feelings.

Potential benefits of E85 are contested by some experts who point out that deriving gasoline from petroleum is a relatively inexpensive (i.e., more efficient) process, even including the transportation of oil and gasoline long distances. Large-scale production of ethanol may be cost-prohibitive; and may result in a net energy loss when taking into account all the energy required to make alcohol from starchy plants. Another drawback for E85 is that, in a liter-to-liter comparison, E85 has less energy content than conventional gasoline; 30% percent less energy for transportation by volume. On top of it extreme care should be taken before using E85 fuel in portable power generators, chain saws, lawn mower and other gas powered equipment. These tools are not generally designed to be used with a high content of ethanol and can go out of service quickly.

Anyway growing up in Iowa we had been running a 10% blend of ethanol for more years than I can remember. It really wasn't cheaper at the gas pump as it was always used as a mid grade fuel (more expensive than regular but cheaper than premium). I know the farmers love it because the price of corn has risen dramatically. I know some people spout that the E85 process doesn't use all of the corn and most of it is left over for other processes however as somebody that works for a very large snack food company.......we don't buy our corn from the Ethanol makers when they are done with it, we buy it from the farmer so we feel the price pinch.

So a quick rundown

+ We grow corn here in the states and can use it to make Ethanol

+ It's possibly cleaner to burn

- It can jack up equipment not designed to run it.

- Has less energy content than gasoline

- Not usually cheaper at the gas pump (in my experience). <== *Edit* Reading Victors post I see it is actually cheaper here.

- Uses more energy to producee

+- Cost of corn has risen (just depends on what side of the fence your on)

I consider it a waste of time, even more so I consider it a waste of corn. A vast majority of corn in this country is used in feeding cattle. When the price of cattle feed skyrockets so does the price of everything related to that animal, Milk, meats, ect. When we have diverted so much corn from the feed / food markets over to the E85 industry only to use more energy to convert the corn to E85, pay like prices at the pump AND get reduced results at the wheels it's a loss.

But anyway that's just my opinion and you know what they say about those.

[FNBADAZ06]

No worries.....moderating G0d !!!!! I wanted to keep the politics and economics out of the discussion and concentrate on the high performance fuel benifits of E85, but it's ok....I edited my statement on the desire to do so You've got the big brain on the subject, and it seemed like my racing fuel thread started leaning toward the E85 subject. Now we can get into the E85 world, and you can add clarity, correction, and insight, into an area that still has a lot of mystery surrounding it

[FNBADAZ06]

With any discussion regarding fuel and it's realtionship with air and the combustion process, we've got to get some terms and definitions out of the way as they play a critical role in the process of generating power.

I'm no rocket scientist, so hopefully I get my explanation of the process correct below...with a little help from the Inter-web and the super techs on our site

The first one is Stoichiometry, or stoich value for short, of the fuel in use.

1) Stoichiometry, as it applies to our fuel discussion, is the realtionship between the amount of fuel and air required in combination to have a complete burn of the specific fuel type when ignited by the spark. "If exactly enough air is provided to completely burn all of the fuel, the ratio is known as the stoichiometric mixture, often abbreviated to stoich" , per Wiki. Without this precise relationship, you will not achieve correct combustion pressures and temps.....too much fuel and you have a RICH air/fuel ratio......too much air (oxygen) and you have a LEAN air/fuel ratio.

Regular petroleum based fuel such as gasoline has a stoich value of around 14.7 to 1......14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel by mass. Get this A/F ratio correct and you'll have completely burned and extracted all the available power potential from the air/fuel mixture without blowing unburned fuel out the exhaust when running rich, or, when lean, creating such high combustion temps that you actually cause the incoming fuel to ignite prematurely and/or melt soft metals such as aluminum pistons.

Straight ethanol has a stoich value of 9 to 1.....9 parts air to 1 part fuel by mass. As you see, ethanol require a significantly richer air/fuel ratio to burn completely and effieciently. E85 is not straight enthanol, but a blend of petroleum based gasoline and ethanol.....the ratio being 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, the "E85" in the fuel's name. The stoich value of this mixture is around 9.65...or 9.65 parts air to 1 part fuel by mass. Not quite as rich of an A/F ratio of straight ethanol, but VERY rich still in comparison to standard gasoline. Ethanol by nature is a difficult fuel to get to ignite, as compared to gasoline. With E85, the gasoline component in the mix helps light off the combustion process.....and probably keeps the wine-o's from drinking 100% grain alcohol from the gas pump

If what I said makes any sense above, you can see that E85 fuel has a significantly different tuning requirement for fueling than standard gasoline.

It's this very reason that an ECU must be tuned corectly to run this type of fuel. Get it right, and you can adjust several other parameters that assist in the combustion process, like timing

OK....a stupid statement comes next, but everyone knows that the factory GM tuning for our Corvette's is based on regular petroleum based pump gas...right ????

That mean's the ECU is assuming that the stoich value of the fuel it's monitoring and trying to keep at optimum A/F is 14.7 to 1, right ?

The GM ECU does have some latitude in correcting the differences between gasoline and E85, using the O2 sensor readings to try and bring the A/F ratio back into gasoline's stoich values....but E85's stoich value isn't 14.7 to 1.....it's 9.65 to 1 !!!! See the problem here ????

I'll stop here for comment and corrections

[Z06_Mir]

E85: Good for body, good for soul, good for combustion.....

[FNBADAZ06]

E85: Good for body, good for soul, good for combustion.....

In concert with other engine ECU paramters and engine mods, it's phenominal in the amount of power your can produce when using it .

All while using cheap (relatively speaking) pump gas

[Cross]

Alright my turn to jump in and I just woke up a little while ago too lol.

First let’s put some further information out there as there is a real loss in some of the idea's behind E85 as well as a few myths not mentioned here that should be addressed;

1) There are more than 10 Pumps with E85 in Phoenix, I can list them all if anyone would like to know the locations.

2) Tucson has 6-7 Pumps with it and oddly enough one place mixes there own that they promise to always be E85 nothing less and they label the pump that way as well.

3) If your vehicle was made around the mid 1990's chances are because car makers were getting ready for the use of Ethanol in small amounts that your fuel lines will be just fine, your fuel filter or strainer might not be given the age of the car and debris found in it but after taking the following cars through testing with E85 and having no issues it is safe for you gas lines unless you replaced them yourself with cheapo's or somehow have a really cheaply made vehicle that i don't see why you want E85 in at all anyway.

One example o the many is we ran E85 in a 1991 Toyota MR2 only changing the injectors. This car ran it for over a year and loved it, the motor was then pulled due to to much boost as normally happens with those who use boost and want just a little more. The entire fuel system was pulled apart and had no issues which surprised us for a 1991 MR2. This was also done with a 2000 Subaru RS and many others including some GM vehicles.

Changing your gas lines will not hurt esp. considering the age of the vehicle but actual tests have shown some interesting results here.

Now let’s explore some of the neat features of E85 in general;

1) E85 does require 25-20% more fuel. This negates the lower cost (I get E85 for 3.19 a gallon at Chevron) however E85 should not be your goal for fuel economy its point blank.

2) E85 burns cooler due to the Ethanol content in it, this means cooler cylinder head temps and a cooler/denser air charge. Very nice benefit knowing the IAT's under our hoods in the summers are very... warm.

3) E85 does contain a higher Octane Rating however as pointed out before this just means it is further resistant to knock. However with E85 you gain not just that but the cooling effects mentioned above, its because of this that E85 became so popular with those running FI. You get two safety nets without the need for Methanol injection anymore to achieve them.

4) E85 burns cleaner yes it can be used to fool the Emissions places... just some food for thought but it actually cleans everything too. You want some clean internals, injectors etc E85 will provide that.

On politics I will keep out of it, yes sugar is a better source to make it from and I do believe the government is paying farmers to make corn which keeps the price of it low but it does have draw backs politically however frankly at this point I just don't give a damn.

With E85 on Forced induction you can run more timing and cooler charges all thanks to the properties of Ethanol and its use. Yes you’re going to use more but if you want to make more power safely then your first concern should not be cheap. The saying "You gotta pay to play" comes to mind.

With E85 NA there is a lot of speculation which I decided to take on first hand. You can increase your timing. (I run 32-34 degree's of timing with 0 I repeat 0 knock what so ever) This can actually be one of the draw backs of E85, unlike gas it doesn't warn you... esp. on Force induction. It will stop making power on NA applications and you know your done but with Boost it just keeps going until you meet your demise... can be a scary thought. For an NA car your gains will vary but most see 20whp according to threads on LS1 Tech I will link them as ref at the bottom of this post as well as some others who have done some crazy but informative testing with E85 on vehicles that really shows a lot of weird yet good information.

With NA Applications my vehicle was dyno'd against a motor with a much bigger cam, a much better TB and Fast intake and almost the same supporting mods. I not only matched but beat him. My cam is quite small and we did this run in Tucson's wonderful high elevation 365 vs 385 at the wheels at 96 degree temps for my runs he went earlier so I am not sure what his temps were lets guess around 86 degrees out as it was earlier in the morning.

While many doubted why I would do it the results show it really shines but it has draw backs, it uses more fuel its stubborn with cold starts nothing bad for me but while warming up the car is not quite so.. Happy it’s a little rough just one of the fun things of running E85.

Now there are other issues many find with running E85, one big one is not all pumps are actually E85. Lately tests have been showing in Phoenix its really E90+ oddly enough o.O

A local on another board has been running tests lately and sharing his results.

This is a cheap tester you can buy to help you do the same:

http://www.quickfuel...-test-tube.html

But as I said normally you find it to be lower such as E70-E75. Buying from smaller chains makes this more likely however bigger chains like Chevron who has started to carry it in Phoenix and Tucson buy in a bigger supply so the thought is they get better quality. I will run my own tests when I get the tester I ordered.

Also in the Winter E85 is lowered to help with cold start issues mentioned. Another reason to know what your running esp with Boost you need to pay attention.

Thats enough I am sure I will spark a little controversy I tend to let me go grab a few links and check out another thread I want to as well as catch up on other things. But this should be a fun thread.

Links:

http://ls1tech.com/f...ml#post13998508

http://www.ls1tech.c...ur-ls1-e85.html

http://injector-reha...ector_size.html (A neat site with some help for sizing injectors for E85)

http://www.rs25.com/...ooooo-good.html

http://forums.nasioc...ad.php?t=803341

Thats a start there are others but I will stop there took me 25 min or so to find that because well... I stopped to read things again lol.

[Cross]

Actually I see a little was added and I want to comment on it. There is a lot of talk on Stoich mixes and I have found over time there is more than one Stoich level depending on what you want.

Here is an interesting link just to start us off:

http://ethanolpro.tr....com/id213.html

On another note yes there Stoich levels are different (E85 vs Straight Gas) but since a Non-Flexfuel vehicle has no idea its getting E85 it just adds more gas to get it to the factory AFR's regardless of the Stoich stated. The result is as I have mentioned before a leaner burn in a setup that either 1 maxes out your injectors or B you compensated and it just means your running leaning without any knock. Your also not seeing the full benefits as well you are not adding timing. (When talking about a stock vette as we had been lately this is what I am talking about here)

The car wants to see it at the AFR it was programmed to regardless of the type of fuel unless it can sense it. Our Vettes can not so without adding it as I have been looking to do with the 411 PCM option mentioned on HP Tuners its mute anyway. (However this is the safest and smartest thing you can do if you really want to run E85 its my next big goal for my Vette but I see about 400 or so tied up in doing it)

With that in mind there going to be different but the ECU will just run it the same way throwing more fuel to get it to the AFR it was programed too. Over 25% more added and it will throw a code. As others have done you can just add bigger injectors using the website I provided and the car will be running almost dead on the correct extra amount then its just tuning if you want more, NA your pretty safe boosted... well I wouldn't say the same thing lol.

Now if your running E85 as a conversion you really should have a tuning option to handle it. I have HP Tuners and changing the AFR Stoich takes less than 5 minutes. You can set it where ever you want and then tune from there. I am actually experimenting with mine right now but as shown with that link max power is normally not found at the stoich point but below it.

You can go to far with E85 but NA good luck you REALLY have to go to far honestly the car just stops making power and we saw this with the timing we kept adding. After 34 degrees it just was not making anymore but it happily took it. With boost this is a COMPLETELY different matter.

Let me also add since I am sure it will concern a few on the dyno chart I posted of my run see that the car was running at 13:1 AFR. Not the stoich mix everyone expects. Its how the ECU was setup to handle my conversion and it still smelled strongly of being rich thats why I am playing with it further. Next weekend there is another dyno session and I want to see just what the results from me playing around become at that time.

[FNBADAZ06]

Hhhmmm.....I'm not following you here. The stoich value has EVERYTHING to do with determining the precise fuel metering when trying to create the optimum A/F ratio. Without that knowledge, you wont know how much fuel to add or subtract over the entire RPM range at different loads. Yes, the O2 sensors in closed loop will supply information to the ECU on the sampled A/F ratio so that the ECU can command the proper amount of fuel being sprayed by the injectors to bring everything back in line...but the ECU MUST have the proper stoich information in it's base code to understand what need's to be done, with the knowledge of what fuel type is in the gas tank. Just seeing that the A/F readings from the O2 sensors saying the engine's running very lean is not enough info for the ECU to take proper action.....dumping raw fuel into the cylinders to bring the A/F ratio back to stoich is just a crap shoot at that point, if the injectors and fuel pump have the capacity to even supply what the ECU is commanding. What happens if you dump diesel fuel in the tank...how will the ECU deal with that fuel ? A Flexfuel vehicle has such a sensor mounted in the tank to determine what type of fuel ( regular gasoline or E85) the ECU is working with, so that the proper programming (tune) values can be applied to allow the engine to operate effiencently. Maybe I'm missing something in your explanation ?

[Jon]

I would love to put a good set of small chamber heads on a completely stock LS3/7 and see what E85 can do with that.

[FNBADAZ06]

I would love to put a good set of small chamber heads on a completely stock LS3/7 and see what E85 can do with that.

You'd leave the existing heads alone and mill them for added compression, or change to a different piston

Angle milling the heads is getting several guys into the 13:1 and higher compression area....where E85 really comes alive for N/A applications

[Cross]

If you look at the link I provided the information I am pointing out is not that Stoich mix is not important but that the RIGHT stoich mix is important. Stoich as you have ref. to it in our other tech discussions as 14.7 for gas is actually NOT where gas makes the most power that's where its the most efficient in terms of fuel economy. I can throw any number in the Stoich AFR setting hell I could put 16.3 the ecu will try to run with it but we know what the effects will be. With the Max Lean Power for Stoich being 13.23 on gas that means your 1.5 or so points above the math for a max power making setup. Indeed most tuners find gas to make the most power right around 13.0:1 afr. Maybe that clears up the confusion you had? Maybe I misunderstood what you misunderstood and we should all just have a beer and misunderstand together. On the diesel thing, yes people have put diesel in gas vehicles the results are amusing. However I think rereading what you wrote your really misunderstanding the point I made that running E85 or Gas the ECU will just keep running with the idea of this is what my Stoich is set to this is what AFR I want to see I will keep adding fuel until I get there. An idea I really tried to express more in the other thread using E85 as a octane booster, but that's another thread. When you brought up stoich mixtures your still ref. to it being whats required to make a clean burn but at 14.7 your well beyond the burn of Gas to make the most POWER. Your doing great emissions wise and gas mileage wise though. That's what I am trying to show you, there is more to this when it comes to what actually makes power, this has been learned and shown not only in practice but in use. When you ref E85 and its stoich mix and then compare it to real world use you start to see some very different numbers. Unlike Gas E85 does not ping it just keeps going, this is a big difference based on its fuel type and characteristics so you can set stoich differently. Your bases that "Its richer" based on comparing it to gas is not really accurate. As your stoich mixture listed for gas actually doesn't make more power it loses power. (These links I give provide a lot of information as well as real world tests some of which I think those doing the tests are rather... ballsy... but they did them none the less and the information is useful) Unlike with gas go higher and you get pinging and knocking, with E85 that's not the problem you run into. It will keep going, again my dyno graph shows something very different does it not and I have taken it even further as I am testing and watching closely. So Stoich is not what you expect with E85 vs Gas and because of this the power potential is really based on when E85 stops making power. For FI that line does not come before you break something as for NA the same is probably true but you can go MUCH MUCH further where as with gas it will just ping then knock when you have gone to far with it. Talk about stoich all you want but the use and application while actually using it in the vehicle are two totally different things and that's where testing comes into play.

[Jon]

I'll see if I can dig up the post, but a guy on Yellowbullet has a high compression stroker that he runs lean as hell(while cruising) on E85 and gets like 22-25mpg on E85.

[Jon]

I would love to put a good set of small chamber heads on a completely stock LS3/7 and see what E85 can do with that.

You'd leave the existing heads alone and mill them for added compression, or change to a different piston

Angle milling the heads is getting several guys into the 13:1 and higher compression area....where E85 really comes alive for N/A applications

I want to do it. Then add a cam and headers. Damn you warranty...

[Cross]

I would love to see his tune as I thought while crusing I could pull more but I am not finding any other tunes to look at so I could see a few safe ranges to go with. I am not that high of compression as I just milled my 243's but I know there is more there its just getting past my comfort level to go that far.

[FNBADAZ06]

I'm not sure if it was NicD who tuned Rudy's car (my buddy with 13:1), but I know PhxCobra has an identical package and he's a member of this board. There are a few other friends of mine that also run high compression E85 combo's but they are out of state friends with their local tuners. I don't know if Jan did the tune work on PhxCobra's car, but he might be willing to share info on his tune. Keep in mind, these are LS7 cars so everything in the tune is not always transferable to other engine packages, but the theory and mechanics are If you are using HP Tuner, I'd ask NicD or Parker (Two Snails) if they'd take a look at it for you....they are both highly educated and skilled tuner's that we have the privledge of having interaction with on this board

[FNBADAZ06]

I'll see if I can dig up the post, but a guy on Yellowbullet has a high compression stroker that he runs lean as hell(while cruising) on E85 and gets like 22-25mpg on E85.

I'm pretty sure all late model computer controlled EFI car's lean the mixture out aggressively when in low load (cruise), part throttle operation...to the degree that the engine designer and fuel will let it. A lot of intersting things are done at low load steady state cruise...have you ever seen what your timing looks like at light engine load while cruising down the highway ?

The relatively high compression (11:1), leaned out part throttle operation, combined with a tall 6th gear, allows my 505 HP Z06 to obtain upwards of 30 MPG at a steady 75+ MPH cruise state....a really remarkable feat when you think about it. THe 575+ RWHP ( 650+ BHP) E85 C6 Z06's on the big board like Jason at Katech, regularly see low-mid 20's MPG in their highway cruise state (or so they claim).

High compression E85 car's gain back some of their lost fuel mileage by the big boost in low RPM torque via the high cylinder pressures they get...created by the higher static compression the engine has, by milling the head or installing an appropriate piston package . The higher you can run the compression and keep from getting into detonation, the less fuel you can use to create a comparable "bang" in the combustion process (compared to a low compression gasoline engine)...this route would be for fuel economy and low emmision tunes. Or, add more fuel and an approriate amount of air to this combo, adjust the total timing appropriately, and watch your torque numbers (and HP) go up big time...the max horsepower/torque tunes.

Same principle that allows diesel powered trucks to get such high gas mileage ratio when compared to the mass of the truck.....the energy potential of diesel fuel under extreme cylinder pressures.

Our 2002 GMC 3500 4x4 crewcab dually powered by a DuraMax and the Allison 5 speed auto transmission and 3.73 rear gear, with the added weight of an auxiliary 150 gallon fuel tank in the bed, regularly hit's 20+ mpg on the highway at 75 MPH cruise.....and it weighs in excess of 10,000 lbs fully loaded

p.s. -YellowBullet.com and E85Mustang.com have some very intelligent members on their boards, and many have a ton of experience with E85...great sites to get info from IMHO.

[NicD]

Done a lot of tuning on E85 cars everything from high compression N/A vehicles to FI. If there are any specific questions don't hesitate to ask but I won't go over all the basics since they have been covered extensively on the internet.

[Steve@LPM]

E85 smells AND tastes better than reg gasoline

[FNBADAZ06]

E85 smells AND tastes better than reg gasoline

There was a wives tale going around that the reason 15% gasoline was added to the ethanol fuel was to keep people from using the 100% variety grain alcohol for human consumption.....mix it with cool-aid and you've got some tastey wine

[FNBADAZ06]

Done a lot of tuning on E85 cars everything from high compression N/A vehicles to FI. If there are any specific questions don't hesitate to ask but I won't go over all the basics since they have been covered extensively on the internet.

Nic....can you successfully tune a car without placing the correct stoich value in the PCM ?

If I remember correctly, you then convert your stoich value to Lambda and then add or subtract from Lambda to reach your target AFR.... I hope I understood that correctly ?

By the way, give me the freebies Barkin' BubbleBee was asking for on his GTO

Bummer that turned ugly.

[Cross]

Nic and I have talked, I would not have minded finding him first since it would have saved me money going right on the dyno but alas I was told he was no longer at AZDyno Chip and went another route. I would love his input as I work to increase gas mileage, transition from Tuner Studio to HP Tuners and figure out some of these cold issues, idle issues and my thoughts on leaning it out further. However he is a busy guy so I am not sure how he feels about that, however I have a Dyno Plot, log files, and everything else already uploaded and ready to rock.