chevy69 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 OK - Thanks to Glenn's advice I have delivered my engine to ADS and it is in the capable hands of Doug. Once the inspection is done I'll know if they can avoid having to deck the block (I don't want this done and they clearly understand that). Needless to say I will be sitting on pins and needles like an expectant father 'till I hear back how the inspection comes out ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knkayotte Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 How did the motor run before you pulled it out?Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy69 Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 How did the motor run before you pulled it out?Keith It didn't. The car had bad compression in at least 2 cylinders and had not run in close to 20 yrs. It got parked, the owner became fascinated by newer vettes and other classic cars and then died before ever getting to it, leaving the car behind as part of an estate. I have very little history on it other than it had been in MN for a while and then in NV, and finally here. You would not believe the number of spider webs in the under carriage. Kinda gives me the creeps, but they all seem to be dead and gone (I've had the car since Aug'05). It's really hard to say what will happen till they blow it apart and measure what's inside. Milage is relatively low (58K). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simpson36 Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 We have an all original '82 CE with the stock engine that is now running great and just passed 100k miles. We also would want to keep the original correct engine when we rebuild (down the road), so I will be following this thread closely.In fact, if you need some help slipping the new engine back into that '69, just holler.Unless I buy a crate engine, I always build my own, so I just need a competent shop. Right now I am thinking about doing a valve job on our Vette and I would want to put in all new valves and springs, so all I need is a shop that can clean, check for cracks and touch up seats and guides.I've heard only good things about ADS. Do they do their own machine work in house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1FASTC4 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Why, exactly, do you not want to motor decked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy69 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 The reason I don't want it decked is because that will "wipe away" the number pad on the block that ties the engine to the VIN and shows that it is an original, 350/350HP motor produced for this car. The transmission and rear end have similar numbers stamep in which is what makes them "numbers matching". If it wasn't the original motor, I would just be putting a crate motor in and skip the rebuild. It's mostly a resale thing, and although right now I say I'll never want to sell the car history and about 100 cars since my first car at 15 will likely prove me wrong ;) I said the same thing about my '55 Chevy 2DR Hardtop (man I wish I still had that one). And my '64 Impala SS, and... Bottom line the car is worth more with all the original drivetrain components. I will make some mods like sidepipes, etc... but this is all stuff that can change back later if someone wants to have it all correct. Maybe I should just mothball the original stuff and go with a 502 crate motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1FASTC4 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 You can simply have the numbers stamped back on, lots of shops can do that and they don't deck it so deep that the that the pad is wiped out. I had the very same thing done to mine, you literally wouldn't know unless I told ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie44 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 You can simply have the numbers stamped back on, lots of shops can do that and they don't deck it so deep that the that the pad is wiped out. I had the very same thing done to mine, you literally wouldn't know unless I told ya. WRONG! I worked auto theft for 7yrs with Phx PD and I can't tell you how many engines, transmissions and complete Harley's I seized because some fool restamped numbers. Those are official identifiers on the vehicle and it is against AZ State law to stamp, restamp or in any other way tamper with those numbers. I had a guy in tears while he took the big block out of his 71 Vette. We told him the only way we would give him the car back was if he came to our impound lot and yanked the motor. We later destroyed the big block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy69 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 I had heard of restamping, but that is scary what Eddie44 has to say. Doug was out sick yesterday, so hopefully they get back w/ me today or tomorrow on how things look. I'll just keep my fingers crossed until they get back with me. Thanks guys!Simpson36 - thanks for the offer, you never know when you might need a hand, but more likely it will be the day I pull the body off the frame which is coming soon. I'll probably round up some beer and pizzas for the occasion and make a garage party out of the event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togo Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Maybe I should just mothball the original stuff and go with a 502 crate motor this is probably the BEST idea (well, m aybe not a 502 - it would require much more modification than just using a ZZ4 or a ZZ383 or whatever the latest "hot" crate motor is now.)then, like you said, you can yank the crate motor out and put your freshened 350 in there and sell it as original.like i mentioned, if i had a "collectors" car, that's what i would be doing to help keep resale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simpson36 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 You know guys, there IS the 'coolness' factor of running the engine that the car rolled off the line with!The 'coolest' engine I've ever had was the original 348 in my last 1958 Impala Hardtop. Crate would have been easy, and it is not easy to find a shop that cac cut that bizarre agled deck block, but there is just no substitute for the "OOOOOOH" when that hood opens! On the other hand, I must admit, I'm thinking about slipping a stock GM crate in our '82 vette and storing the original . . . . but it just feels wimpy . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3,503 lbs of trouble Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 On the other hand, I must admit, I'm thinking about slipping a stock GM crate in our '82 vette and storing the original . . . . but it just feels wimpy . . .If you dropped a ZZ4 or a ZZ383 crate in, I think you're going to find that the stock L83 felt "wimpy" in comparison.Trust me, I know wimpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1FASTC4 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Those are official identifiers on the vehicle and it is against AZ State law to stamp, restamp or in any other way tamper with those numbers.Then it must be illegal to deck a block to the point the number get scrubbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1FASTC4 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 On the other hand, I must admit, I'm thinking about slipping a stock GM crate in our '82 vette and storing the original . . . . but it just feels wimpy . .I had an '80 and it was a real dog... 82 have a significantly better motor? I could have put just about any v8 crate in that 80 and noticed improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie44 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Then it must be illegal to deck a block where the numbers get scrubbed. If they in fact scrub the numbers then yes it would be illegal. Point being you would still have to be in a position for a cop to 1) know to look for that number and 2) know that it was illegal if he saw it was scrubbed. Bottom line you'd almost have to have someone that worked auto theft or had worked it for them to seize the vehicle. If all other VIN plates, etc are intact there is probably no reason a street cop would ever look for an engine #. My point in bring it up was that if you have a choice in whether to scrub or not then don't for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1FASTC4 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 well I didn't mean my statement as a way of....debating/arguing... My point is I think it's good to be armed with that info before having a motor decked. I was unaware of it, just told the shop to stamp the numbers back in. The shop sure didn't mention anything. Come to think of it, I never bothered to look(AFAIK) to see that they stamped them back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy69 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 well I heard back from Doug this afternoon. He said they should be able to avoid having to deck the block, but it wasn't real pretty inside. I sounds as though there is a lot of rust in the cylinders from sitting so long, and that all the rods, pistons, some of the push rods, etc... have to be replaced. The crank is salvageable, but the block will have to be bored. To rebuild things as close to stock as possible, including like parts, was quoted at ~$3300. Does this price seem about right? I know I can buy a new HO350 deluxe (complete from air cleaner to oil pan) from GM for under $3200 (I just put one of these in my street rod 2 yrs ago). What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeery Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 $3300 sounds right for a complete clean, bore, and rebuild. I was facing the same thing with my 1980 5 years ago. $3500 to rebuild or just buy a whole new one (much better) for the same price.Buy Chris's 383, or some other crate engine and put that in your car and have some real power and keep the original block around as a spare, get it worked on as you have time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simpson36 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 If you dropped a ZZ4 or a ZZ383 crate in, I think you're going to find that the stock L83 felt "wimpy" in comparison.Trust me, I know wimpy. You may know whimpy, but you don't know Nickolette. The Vette is her daily driver and one thing she doesn't need is a lot of power to play with!She can get into enough trouble with 200hp. I do think the '82 had more power than an '80, but The rear tires never even get nervous in this car . . . As to the rebuild cost . . . I get nervous when someone tells me the rods need to be replaced in a motor that never blew up. What goes wrong with a rod? The crank is 'salvageable'? What does that mean? Why would it not be? You tank it and you cut it .010 under and polish . . . it's then better than a new crank. What would make it 'unsalvageable'?I don't know this for a fact, but I was told that Vette engines have all the good parts in them like forged rods and crank . . . even if the engine was a 'whimpy' model. In any event, just my personal opinion here . . . which is what you asked for . . . . NO WAY would I pay someone the price of a new performance crate motor to do a stock rebuild . . unless you plan to show the car. A small block chevy is a small block chevy is a small block chevy. If you want to save bucks, get a $1300 Goodwrench 350 or a $1600 low end performance Goodwrench 350 (290hp I think). Or pop the $3k on something fun.Either way, tuck that original engine away and get a new crate and drive the SH*$ out of the thing without worry of breaking classic parts. When and if you sell the car, you can always give the buyer a choice of getting both engines (which costs you your $3k crate) or you could keep the crate and rebuild the stock engine (Which costs you $3k and you keep your crate).Either way, dollar wise it comes out a wash, and you have two alternatives to satisfy a buyer . . stock or modified. And you don't have the wait and the unknown of a rebuilt engine . . . no disrepect to ADS. Now if it were ME, I'd get the block tanked, crack checked and bored and push in some cam bearings and give it back to me. Heads: tank, crack check and inspect and recondition the guides and seats . . and give 'em back to me. Crank: tank, check for cracks, cut, radius and polish . . and give it back to me. Get new pistons pressed on to the rods . . and give them back. Now I just need and engine stand, a pile of new parts, some tools, a few beers and I'm a happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy69 Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 That's just it, the engine had blown. Some of the push rods are actually bent and the rods and pistons all sat with water in the cylinders for ~20 yrs. The cylinders are all rusty. They think .030 might do it on the bore, and it doesn't appear the motor had ever been rebuilt before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knkayotte Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 well I heard back from Doug this afternoon. He said they should be able to avoid having to deck the block, but it wasn't real pretty inside. I sounds as though there is a lot of rust in the cylinders from sitting so long, and that all the rods, pistons, some of the push rods, etc... have to be replaced. The crank is salvageable, but the block will have to be bored. To rebuild things as close to stock as possible, including like parts, was quoted at ~$3300. Does this price seem about right? I know I can buy a new HO350 deluxe (complete from air cleaner to oil pan) from GM for under $3200 (I just put one of these in my street rod 2 yrs ago). What do you guys think? I have a 72, so I've been interested in your story. I'd buy a crate motor and mothball your other one so it at least doesn't get any worse. This way you'll have a good motor that you shouldn't have to worry about. Something tells me restoring your orginal motor will quickly turn into a money pit.My current motor is a base motor, so no big lose if she goes. But if and when it does, I've got my eye on a 383 crate motor. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92ZR1Wannabe Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I know I can buy a new HO350 deluxe (complete from air cleaner to oil pan) from GM for under $3200 (I just put one of these in my street rod 2 yrs ago). What do you guys think? I would take a brand new GM engine for less then they are going to rebuild the old boat anchor for.Cover it up , store it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy69 Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 I know I can buy a new HO350 deluxe (complete from air cleaner to oil pan) from GM for under $3200 (I just put one of these in my street rod 2 yrs ago). What do you guys think?I would take a brand new GM engine for less then they are going to rebuild the old boat anchor for.Cover it up , store it. I'm not sure I can call a '69 350hp/350 a boat anchor. ;) I mean c'mon, double hump heads, 11:1 compression, etc... I'm almost 45 and this was the stuff everyone looked for back in "the day" when we were all trying to rebuild rusty 10-12 yr old muscle cars back in Ohio ;) I'm not wanting a restored to the nth degree car, but would really like the "cool factor" mentioned above (at least for me) of a vehicle done the way it would have been for the period. I guess for me that includes the original motor, original Muncie 4spd, and chrome hooker sidepipes.I was probably a half an inch away from ordering the crate, but just couldn't pull the trigger. In fact I almost pulled the one I have out of my street rod project, but again, I just couldn't do it (see below). I think the "nostalgic" part of having the original motor got to me. Thanks for all the advice, I'm going to move ahead with the rebuild (ouch). Doug's using forged pistons and putting a little hotter cam in while we're at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Just be sure to tell Doug you want your stock pistons back, they should be TRW flat tops and you can probably sell them for a few extra bucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Simpson36 Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Chevy69;Congratulations on going for the coolness factor! Now if you REALLY wanted cool, you slap your existing crate into the Vette and build a 409 for the street rod . . . . . just kidding ;) A '69 350/350 with 11:1 compresion is definately worthy of restoration, however, the coolness rulebook frowns on non stock cams . . . cool factory engines each have a distinctive sound which comes primarily from the cam.Speaking of sound, you know forged pistons need a lot of clearance so they can be noisy . . . especially cold. Since you don't mind non original internal parts, you might consider something more modern like hypereutectic.Does the cost they quoted include balancing? Make sure that the shop uses deck plates when machining the block!I didn't get an answer as to whether ADS does their own machining in-house. Does anybody know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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