Stereo design question

[Guest 71airstrike]

Many years ago I used to help build and compete in car stereo contests. What I have learned from that is

A: That stuff is an expensive hobby

And B: You have to spend money to get good sound.

Im wanting to put a system in Roxxane but I have been out of the game for 10+ years and I don?t know who is ?good? and who just ?looks good?.. I need advice.

My goals are

Loud. I want to hear music with the top down, and wind blowing around me at 120 mph.

No Distortion.

Stealth. I don?t want people to see what I have..

Don?t care about sound stage, and imaging

I listen to Heavy metal, talk, and some techno.

Whatever goes into the trunk must be practical. I want to throw in some folding chairs and not worry about ripping out wires. It don?t need to be pretty, just practical.

Here is what I like so far but I need help filling in the rest.

Head unit

Alpine 9857

Amps:

I like the looks and internal design of the Rockford Fosgate Punch amp.

Clean low key, and simple.

I thinking 3-way in the door but not many manufactures make 3-ways and I have no idea on subs.

Please offer any opinions.

[Guest AZ Power & Sound]

Many years ago I used to help build and compete in car stereo contests. What I have learned from that is

A: That stuff is an expensive hobby

And B: You have to spend money to get good sound.

Im wanting to put a system in Roxxane but I have been out of the game for 10+ years and I don?t know who is ?good? and who just ?looks good?.. I need advice.

My goals are

Loud. I want to hear music with the top down, and wind blowing around me at 120 mph.

No Distortion.

Stealth. I don?t want people to see what I have..

Don?t care about sound stage, and imaging

I listen to Heavy metal, talk, and some techno.

Whatever goes into the trunk must be practical. I want to throw in some folding chairs and not worry about ripping out wires. It don?t need to be pretty, just practical.

Here is what I like so far but I need help filling in the rest.

Head unit

Alpine 9857

Amps:

I like the looks and internal design of the Rockford Fosgate Punch amp.

Clean low key, and simple.

I thinking 3-way in the door but not many manufactures make 3-ways and I have no idea on subs.

Please offer any opinions.

Things have changed a lot in 10 years... Basically all sound is based on amplifiers now... most decks whether alpine, pioneer, eclipse etc all put out really clean signal and the only difference being special features or flashy displays. The Rockford stuff is pretty good, they tend to be up and down lately with some good and some bad. I havent personally tried the new stuff, but what we do like using a lot of is the Boston Acoustics line. I believe they still make a 3 way setup in the Pro line, however with drivers as good as they are these days there isnt much point! If you have a chance, take a peak at Tims stereo (P51TJ), he has all the latest and greatest Boston equipment and I think it sounds fantastic! We will also be doing a Trans Am this week with a Boston setup as well if you want to stop by and hear it!

[Guest Sidewinder]

This is good right? :D I have been out of the stereo game for a while also

[Guest LT4ME]

This is good right? :D I have been out of the stereo game for a while also

Dude, that's SO old school... everyone who's anyone has cutting edge 8-track these days.

[Guest intmd8r]

This is good right? :D I have been out of the stereo game for a while also

Aw man, that is AWESOME!

If you find that somewhere on sale, let me know!

In all seriousness, I am watching this thread with great interest. Mike and I were talking just this morning and me wanting to upgrade the absolutely awful stock system in the vert and I have no idea what is good either.

I had an MTX Amp and Sub in my 99 Z28, but it was FAR from a complete system and I don't want something that isn't complete, then you only get the strong points overshadowing the weak ones (too much bass and not enough mid-range in the Z).

I want something that is totally stealth and will take up no space in my trunk.

I'm not ready to spend the money that I know will be necessary right now, but I am going to watch this thread so I have ideas of where I want to go when I'm ready.

[Guest 71airstrike]

angie

hers is what my research and (old) experence has shown me.

Find a head unit you like. Then go to best buy/circut city and PLAY WITH IT.

All current head units are geared for the 17 year old male who likes playing PSP2. Lota flash and trash, but no real vaule.

Example. Some one says something in the car, and you want to turn down the voulme quickley.

On the Pioneer unit you press the - button and wait.. wait.. wait.... till it gets to Vol 03

F that.. The alpine has a knob that one 'click' = one volume point. You turn it fast and it moves fast.

It sounds simple but but manfactuers in the quest to pack more 'goodies' and 'featuers' into a 'one-item-fits-all' product forget the day to day egronomics of using it.

.. besides the Alpine AiNet feature is getting good reviews with Ipod and Sirius interface (trust me they are not all built the same).

Next decide on what size of sub you want. Two 8"s? one or two 10"? one 12"?

The type of music you listen will help determine the path.

Off the cuff Id suggest one 12". Country music has some of the deeper bass out there.

Pick your sub then pick your amp to feed it. Its not uncommon to have a three to one power ratio (or more) for sub versus front speakers. For me im looking at 300watts for the sub and around 100Watts for the fronts (and thats low for the sub).

Here are ballpark pricing to get you a feel of what you are asking

sub:200.00

sub box:150.00

sub amp:250.00

front amp: 200.00

front speakers: 200.00

Head unit: 350.00

Caps. wiring, zipties, and screws: 300.00

TOTAL 1650.00

If you have someone do the install (cough Mike azpowersound cough) you will be in the 2k department.

Just like in hot rodding your car. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The head unit, wiring, amps, and speakers are all one co-existing unit. If you upgrade one you will damage or not get full benifit of that part until all parts are upgraded.

When you do a stereo system install. do it in one pass. do not upgrade a peice at a time. That is what experence has tought me.

[Togo]

i have an alpine head unit in mine - and don't like it, so i plan on getting rid of it.

but it sounds good for the time being.

i have JL sub in the stealth box in the back, precision power amp (not sure of the model)

you can have a seat and give it a listen at the next meet - we are thinking about going on the run with SECC on the 23rd - if we back out, i'm sure we can make plans to get togehter so you can have a listen.

i have a cache of amps and a deck at my moms house - i was going to put them in my black vette but since that's gone, i'm not sure what i'm going to do with them (and NO, that is in no way a solicitation to sell)

Polk audio speakers sound GREAT (i can vouch for the subs anyway) as they sound 10 times better than the MTX speakers i used to have

(more to come later, on my way out the door)

[Guest 1FASTC4]

Mike, do you sell hardware or just do installs?

I buy stuff from a friend who owns a big wholesale outfit here in town so I could help those looking for equipment but do not want to step on any toes. I can buy at about 60% of retail pricing. They don't care what I do with the stuff as long as I do not resell it so I could forward the savings on to our clan.

[Guest intmd8r]

I buy stuff from a friend who owns a big wholesale outfit here in town so I could help those looking for equipment but do not want to step on any toes. I can buy at about 60% of retail pricing. They don't care what I do with the stuff as long as I do not resell it so I could forward the savings on to our clan.

I would be VERY interested in talking to you!

Thanks for the info, Chad. I mostly listen to Heavy Metal/Alternative/Rock/Pop - pretty much anything except for Country or Rap.

I definitely agree on doing it all at once, as I've had experience the other way and it clearly sucks.

[Guest 1FASTC4]

Happy to help, unless we have members who sell hardware for a living. I don't want to hurt any of our brother's business as this is not how I put bread on my table. I hope you understand.

[P51tj]

I'm enjoying the sounds that I have now. Mike and the boys (AZ P&S) installed Boston speakers, sub and amp with a Pioneer HU with a Vroom Vroom face plate! Also a SubThump stealth box. Music to my ears and no country or rap here either! WHAT I can't hear you!

[Togo]

Happy to help, unless we have members who sell hardware for a living. I don't want to hurt any of our brother's business as this is not how I put bread on my table. I hope you understand.

post up - this is not a forum that has paid advertisers - while we do support them - that is because they are also owners and members!

if you think no one here wants that info for 60% off - you are high!

POST UP!

also realize, (at least in my opinion - i could be wrong) markup on equipment s not where they make most of their money - i think it's the labor and "design" aspect that makes a good portion of their "profit"

also, look at the what mike's doing for us - he's hooking us up for GM parts at wholesale + 10% - no one complained about that!!!!

heck, i could have bought a hose (if i had had enough time for shipping) for around $14 - instead i had to get it from the dealer cuz i needed next day - i paid alomst $40!!!!!

[Togo]

i'm thinking about one of these

7＂TFT LCD

DVD PLAYER

Mobile DVD Digital Server with 7-inch Motorized

Motorized Display Angle Adjustment

DVD-Video,DVD-Audio,CD,MP3

with built-in TV tuner &FM receiver

Dimmer Control

C-Bus System Control

Dolby digital surrounds(DTS)

One Din bracket

CCD camera input

Automatic Display Positioning

Picture Adjustment(Brightness,Contrast,

　Hue,Dimmer Settings)

Dolby Digital,DTS,Dolby Pro ll surround

Multi-Channel Auto EQ(industry first)

Motion graphics

Burr-Brown DACs,custom-designed capacitors

50 Watts*4

FM/AM and it's XM Ready

Card size remote control

　　

[Guest 1FASTC4]

Ok give me a brand and model number, I'll see if they carry it. They carry many, but not all brands.

[sundevil82]

here are some brands that are good Kicker, memphis, jl, infinity, mtx, pioneer for there decks, boston, eclipse there are a couple that i am leaving out just cant think of them. i just had the pioneer the p7600 dvd player installed in my car a couple weeks ago along with memphis mid range. the deck works great and the picture and sound is amazing. finally got my car back but still needs a little work but couldnt pass up the deal on the dvd and speakers. there are many different choices you just have to find the one that you want.

[Guest LT4ME]

I was eye-balling this one this morning, until I read what Chad said about the volume. Now I'm curious. I'll have to go check it out and see what sort of features it has and what annoyances they create.

[Guest 71airstrike]

Ok give me a brand and model number, I'll see if they carry it. They carry many, but not all brands.

If you could find out about these bad boys that would be great

Alpine CDA-9857 head unit

Alpine KCE-422i alpine Ipod interface cable

Sirius SIR-ALP1 Sirius interface unit for Alpine AiNet

Rockford Fosgate Punch P325.2 Amplifier

JL Audio XR653-CSi 3-way speakers

JL Audio 10W3v2 sub

thankyou

chad

[jmartin]

Happy to help, unless we have members who sell hardware for a living.  I don't want to hurt any of our brother's business as this is not how I put bread on my table.  I hope you understand. 

post up - this is not a forum that has paid advertisers - while we do support them - that is because they are also owners and members!

if you think no one here wants that info for 60% off - you are high!

POST UP!

also realize, (at least in my opinion - i could be wrong) markup on equipment s not where they make most of their money - i think it's the labor and "design" aspect that makes a good portion of their "profit"

also, look at the what mike's doing for us - he's hooking us up for GM parts at wholesale + 10% - no one complained about that!!!!

heck, i could have bought a hose (if i had had enough time for shipping) for around $14 - instead i had to get it from the dealer cuz i needed next day - i paid alomst $40!!!!!

[P51tj]

If you could find out about these bad boys that would be great

Alpine CDA-9857 head unit

Alpine KCE-422i alpine Ipod interface cable

Sirius SIR-ALP1 Sirius interface unit for Alpine AiNet

Rockford Fosgate Punch P325.2 Amplifier

JL Audio XR653-CSi 3-way speakers

JL Audio 10W3v2 sub

thankyou

chad

Someone has done their homework!!! Nice

[Togo]

If you could find out about these bad boys  that would be great

Alpine CDA-9857  head unit

Alpine KCE-422i alpine Ipod interface cable

Sirius SIR-ALP1  Sirius interface unit for Alpine AiNet

Rockford Fosgate Punch P325.2 Amplifier

JL Audio XR653-CSi 3-way speakers

JL Audio 10W3v2 sub

thankyou

chad

Someone has done their homework!!! Nice

kinda - i see one flaw......

go with rockford fosgate POWER series - not punch.

the power and punch come off the same assembly line, in fact they are exactly the same thing, but the power amps have higher ratings in just about every quality - and they even include a spec sheet to show you the tolerances in all tests.

[Guest ChadC]

kinda - i see one flaw......

go with rockford fosgate POWER series - not punch.

teh power and punch come off teh same assembly line, in fact they are exactly teh same thing, but teh power amps have higher ratings in just about every quality - and they even include a spec sheet to show you teh tolerances in all tests.

With respect Togo I dont think this path is a flaw. Please let me explain.

While im not teh smartest person on teh block, I did pick up a few things while working in teh car audio field.

This is teh inside of teh Rockford Punch 350watt amp.

80watt x 2 @ 4 ohms RMS

$189.00

This heat sink was designed for teh more powerful 450 watt unit. You can tell by teh unused transformer mounting holes (green circles). Translation= this unit has better cooling needs that teh amplifier requires. More cooling longer life.

Nice fat juicy caps to make teh power needs available for teh unit. (yellow circle)

Notice teh power supply (blue circle) See below

Automotive style blade fuse (orange circle) See Below

This is teh inside of teh Rockford Fosgate Power 500 watt amp

70watts X 2 @ 4 ohms RMS

$360.00

See teh power supply (blue circle) looks teh same huh? That?s cuz it is.

Nice pretty fuse (yellow circle). That puppy will cost $30 to replace and you will have to wait a week.

Dam Fan (red circle). Ok this is a pet peeve. If teh fan craps out, do you think you will know before any damage is done? Ask people with video card fans that pooped out. teh main reason why there is a fan is because teh unit is 2 ohm stable while in bridge mode (a feature I have no need for). Lower teh resistance (ohms) more heat. An Amplifier is a really really simple device. There is no need for any moving parts let alone a fan.

This unit may have better sound quality in a blind fold test but, in a car, from an Ipod, while doing 120 mph, and hearing a walkie talkie crackle something about ?doughnuts? and 'where teh next turn is' ? Ill never know teh difference.

That and teh $170.00 aint nothing to sneeze at.

[Guest AZ Power & Sound]

Mike, do you sell hardware or just do installs?

I buy stuff from a friend who owns a big wholesale outfit here in town so I could help those looking for equipment but do not want to step on any toes. I can buy at about 60% of retail pricing. They don't care what I do with teh stuff as long as I do not resell it so I could forward teh savings on to our clan.

teh only items I push that im direct with are Eclipse and Boston, teh rest I buy locally through teh same wholesalers... youre welcome to bring your own stuff in as it saves me a trip downtown Just be cautious though, many wholesalers will NOT warranty teh items they sell, and not buying through an authorized dealer will often void teh warranty with teh manufacturer as well.

[Guest AZ Power & Sound]

I havent played with teh 07 head units yet, but heres my basic breakdown of teh decks IN MY OPINION

Eclipse - for quality its pretty much teh best of teh best, however it might just be teh hardest deck in teh world to figure out! they are also very boring looking, about 2 years behind in accessories like IPod, Satalite radio and other interfaces, and lack a lot of teh easy features most new head units have. If youre an audiophile and dont mind reading teh manual and spending some time with it, these are great!

Pioneer - Basically teh honda civic of head units... they are cheap, easy to use, wont ever let you down, come with 10 million features and have easy to replace parts because everyone carries them. Most are pretty flashy but teh upside to these is teh same internal amp is in EVERY model from cheapest to most expensive, so teh only thing teh higher priced ones buy is more features, or more voltage for teh amps

Kenwood - I hate kenwood. impossible to use, most menus require you go through other features to get to them, average price etc.

Alpine - IMO, a close 2nd to Eclipse for quality, however typically more expensive, not teh easiest head unit to learn, but they have a long list of accessories and generally dont break.

Clarion - No. Ive never seen so many head units come back broken then when I sold these back in thed ay

Sony - No. sub par internals, terrible amps, low low power, impossible to figure out features, but they do have a cool rotary knob!

JVC - best bang for teh buck... they are dirt cheap, work great and generally sound good for teh lower end decks. They cant compare to teh higher end pioneer or alpine when put to amplifiers, but for someone wanting a cheap deck that works good, this is it

and my best philosiphy for buying... if you havent heard of it, chances are theres a reason

[F22trainer]

I bought a Kenwood 725 (Ithink) DVD touch screen unit w/ GPS and sat radiio expansion capability, Alpine amp and Boston Acoustic front and rear speakers to fit in the stock opening / grills. I might suggest Crutchfield's for some good choices - but then you have to either install it yourself or find an installer. They also sell install kits that are make and model specific - harness with proper connectors, face plates, etc. I can tell you where to NOT get it installed, that's a long story, but with a happy ending.

Sound is great, even with the top off and the head unit looks like just a standard CD player, and I kept the factory grills so it isn't a flashy install for prying eyes. Of course the control face plate is also removable.

I really like the "low profile" visibility (the screen folds down and retracts into the dash unit when not in use) of the system and the sound is really clean.

http://www.kenwood-electronics.com.my/cms/...&whichimg=1

[F22trainer]

I believe the KVT 725 has been replaced by the KVT 737...

but both have a cool remote too!

I do have to agree and admit the learning curve is high - there's still things I have to get out the manual for, and I still haven't set the clock right but that's why I have this really neat Brietling watch - HA!

Michael