NoWorries Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thinking about the consideration of dollars spent on performance brakes. Installed hydroboost on the camino today. That means a hydraulic unit goes in place of the vacuum booster. Meaning the power steering pump gives aid to the brakes instead of engine vacuum. My otherwise stock 40 year old brakes now stop hard enough to put someone through the windshield. So with less effort I have better brakes than my C5 ever thought of having. Not ranting at all, but rather curious as to maybe I might learn something new. The consideration is this. Why do people pay thousands for baer, wilwoood, etc. performance calipers, rotors, and master cylinders? The hydroboost swap cost me all of around $300. I do like how big brake packages look in an open wheel. But are there other reasons that hydroboost is not done more often? Say brake fade at high speed? Consitancy in road course? I do know that newer motors seem to have better vacuum even with a big cam than in previous years. Would be interested to hear feedback from those who have messed with performance brakes before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Um, I might be wrong ( wouldn't be the first time) but Im pretty sure your C5 already has hydro boost Brakes...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCMSH Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Hittin' the pipe in the afternoons again Dwayne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoWorries Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 The C5 has a vacuum brake booster. As do most cars. Guessing there is probably a reason for car makers to have a preferance, but no idea why. Maybe it reduces the life of the pump or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I changed to braided steel brake lines and a more aggressive pad. My brakes are very linear and firm now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Brakes? What are those for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sidewinder Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 You are coming down the mountain almost to Laughlin at ummm say double the speed limit and you throw a power steering belt. No power steering AND..... I'll take vacuum assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoWorries Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 You are coming down the mountain almost to Laughlin at ummm say double the speed limit and you throw a power steering belt. No power steering AND..... I'll take vacuum assist. Good point. The makers of hydroboost thought of that. There is a reserve canister that gives you about 3 full charge pedal uses before basically having manual brakes. Even with a complete engine failure you are covered. Not trying to sell hydroboost to anyone, but rather trying to see the advantages or disadvantages to various setups. A shop had talked to me about being able to do brakes that can "put you through the windshield" as well. So, I know there are various options, although not sure how affective with larger cams or other mods. The upgraded lines and pads also seem like a good upgrade that is common. Something I am wanting to do, just not sure about bleeding the system with consideration to the abs. What I am thinking is maybe performance calipers are not needed for added pressure if the master clyinder can do it. I know the bigger rotors help spread out heat. Do the bigger calipers help with heat reduction as well? Or is it so a longer/bigger brake pad can be used? Has anyone found other tricks, swaps, or changes that help without spending tons of money? On a side note. Wondering about abs unit kicking in to aid braking in the event of engine failure. If it doesn't, seems like it could be added just like traction control. Maybe it already has this, no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The process to stop your car is just simple physics. Leverage, pressure, and friction are the main items. Large rotors have more surface area for larger pads to create more friction at a point farther from the center of the wheel without a massive increase in pressure. What you did was to increase the pressure to the pads while maintaining the original pressure on the pedal. i.e. more assist. The footprint and compound of the tires is of much greater importance and they need to be matched to the brakes. If you can lock up the brakes, you don't have enough tire. If you can't skid the tires, you don't have enough brakes. ABS solves that dilemma by having better brakes than tires and then modulating the brakes to compensate for the loss of friction between the tire and road. Small diameter, but wide sticky compound tires with large agressive pads on equally large inboard rotors all mounted on a low CG car is about as good as today's technology gets for handling and brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 By far, teh most cost-effective swap for us C5 guys is: C6 Z-51 brackets and rotors....you don't even need to open your system. You do need 18" front wheels though. Teh rotors are about an inch bigger in diameter, and teh bolt-on brackets that are still available from GM are very cheap. Add some Hawk or Carbotech Bobcats, some S/S lines and flush teh old brake fluid out, subsituting teh ATE Super Blue instead, and enjoy. If you don't mind dropping a fair chunk o' change, swap to C6 Z06 brakes instead... http://www.arizonacorvetteenthusiasts.net/arizonavette/forums/index.php?showtopic=20150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 By far, teh most cost-effective swap for us C5 guys is: C6 Z-51 brackets and rotors....you don't even need to open your system. You do need 18" front wheels though. Teh rotors are about an inch bigger in diameter, and teh bolt-on brackets that are still available from GM are very cheap. Add some Hawk or Carbotech Bobcats, some S/S lines and flush teh old brake fluid out, subsituting teh ATE Super Blue instead, and enjoy. If you don't mind dropping a fair chunk o' change, swap to C6 Z06 brakes instead... http://www.arizonacorvetteenthusiasts.net/arizonavette/forums/index.php?showtopic=20150 2000 C5 rotors F12.6" R11.8" C6 base rotors F12.8" R12.0" C6 Z51/F55 rotors F13.4" R 13.0" (F55 in '05-'06 used base sizes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoWorries Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 By far, teh most cost-effective swap for us C5 guys is: C6 Z-51 brackets and rotors....you don't even need to open your system. You do need 18" front wheels though. Teh rotors are about an inch bigger in diameter, and teh bolt-on brackets that are still available from GM are very cheap. Add some Hawk or Carbotech Bobcats, some S/S lines and flush teh old brake fluid out, subsituting teh ATE Super Blue instead, and enjoy. If you don't mind dropping a fair chunk o' change, swap to C6 Z06 brakes instead... http://www.arizonacorvetteenthusiasts.net/arizonavette/forums/index.php?showtopic=20150 Thanks for the feedback. I couldn't get the link to work. Did you do this swap on yours? If so, what kind of differences did you notice? Have certainly noticed the cost benefit of swapping other gm parts. For example, am looking at doing LS7 exhaust manifolds instead of headers to keep c.a.r.b. legal for california. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 For example, am looking at doing LS7 exhaust manifolds instead of headers to keep c.a.r.b. legal for california. Clicky I did the LS7 manifolds, cats and H pipe. with a NicD tune I put out 386hp 387tq to the wheels, or about 460 at the motor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Did you do this swap on yours? If so, what kind of differences did you notice? I'm in teh process....first, I have to buy Michelin's for teh Nurbrugrings, then I can begin to collect brake parts....(teh rubber will be at teh end of teh month) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoWorries Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Did you do this swap on yours? If so, what kind of differences did you notice? I'm in teh process....first, I have to buy Michelin's for teh Nurbrugrings, then I can begin to collect brake parts....(teh rubber will be at teh end of teh month) Were you able to find some 18inch front wheels that matched and still keep the height staggered or are you having to do all 4 rims? I wouldn't be suprised to see twin rotor designs in the future for the purpose of wheel clearance. Or even rotors mounted to rims with calipers mounted from the center. Have seen movie cars with dual calipers on the same rotor. I think being an engineer at GM could be alot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I did 19x9 front, 19x10.5 rears. (if teh carbon ceramics ever come down to reality, I'd like to be able to go that way without another wheel change) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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