Vette vs M/C fiery crash in Chandler

[Eddie44]

Anyone know the Vette driver in this horrific crash? I saw the piece on Channel 3 News but didn't recognize him. He's an Bald African American driving blk a C5 Coupe with rims. That's all I could see.

Witnesses say they were dragracing at 80+ and the m/c hit another car bursting into flames.

Vette driver arrested for endangerment and manslaughter

[1EvilC5]

Did not know the driver.

Here is a video of the Channel 3 report.

News Video

[Eddie44]

Here is the Republic link to the story. It gives the name of the Vette driver

http://www.azcentral.com/community/chandle...agdeath-ON.html

[BSeery]

Everyone here knows I hate street racing.

However, how can they charge the Corvette driver with the death of the motorcycle rider? He didn't force the motorcycle to race. He didn't swerve and cut the rider off. He didn't turn in front of the motorcycle like the other car did.

Seems like a charge to me.

[ICULUKN]

Moral of the story is ...... The loser gets arrested....

...

if the vette would have won.... the bike wouldnt have crashed....

[Eddie44]

Everyone here knows I hate street racing.

However, how can they charge the Corvette driver with the death of the motorcycle rider? He didn't force the motorcycle to race. He didn't swerve and cut the rider off. He didn't turn in front of the motorcycle like the other car did.

Seems like a charge to me.

It's under the "Felony Murder" rule. If you are committing a crime and death results whether intentional or not you can be charged. That is why they charged him with endangerment also. Endangerment charge is a felony vs drag racing that is a misdemeanor. If charged with just drag racing they wouldn't have been able to charge him with the death of the m/c rider.

I had an armed robbery case one time in which the store owner shot and killed one of the robbers and we charged the accomplice with murder even though he didn't fire a shot.

[BSeery]

sounds like a piss poor way to charge someone for the misktake of the other person. Dead motorcyclist had free will to do what he wanted. He made that choice and he has to live, or die, with his own choice.

I would say if the Corvette was chasing him and he wrecked that the Vette owner caused or was to blame.

What if the Vette owner had lifted 2-3 seconds earlier and was no longer racing?

Oh well, I guess it's the law and what should I care.

All I can say is --- Keep it on the track. Street racing kills and is just stupid.

[Guest chad@xtreme]

Hate to say it but if it is the same guy he bought an exhaust from Xtreme Motorsports.

Chad

[Scratch]

or the biker, for the Vette driver.

News states he did back off, the biker kept on it. The driver turned left in front of the bike, which I doubt he saw him or didn't judge the speed...tragic either way.

[Togo]

Moral of the story is ...... The loser gets arrested....

...

if the vette would have won.... the bike wouldnt have crashed....

interesting analogy (if one could call it an analogy)

this kinda stuff scares me - i bought my car to have fun - and it seems that all the cities are cracking down hardcore with this kind of stuff - ESPECIALLY glendale - i'm sure you've all seen the news reports - over 100 ARRESTS last weekend and they said everyone that got a ride in the back seat of the popo's car friday got their car towed.

they are really gunnin' for the street racers - it's a shame

kinda makes me wish this was the 1950's when it was almost acceptable

as dad told me - they used to go to a place called Skips Drive In (in chicago) and people would "rumble" in and point to the guys they wanted to race - they'd head to the street and take care of business! and to top it all off, music actually made sense and had words you could actually hear and understand!

oh those were the days!!!!!

[anmracing]

they are really gunnin' for the street racers - it's a shame

kinda makes me wish this was the 1950's when it was almost acceptable

and to top it all off, music actually made sense and had words you could actually hear and understand!

oh those were the days!!!!!

Exactly how OLD are you?

M~

[Togo]

they are really gunnin' for the street racers - it's a shame

kinda makes me wish this was the 1950's when it was almost acceptable

and to top it all off, music actually made sense and had words you could actually hear and understand!

oh those were the days!!!!!

Exactly how OLD are you?

M~

i'm 34 - but the comments on the music stem from my parents - that's all they used to listen to - wolfman jack used to be on kool 94.5 before he passed many many years ago - and my dad would record his shows on tape - remember tape recorders?

so i know all about sock hop music and twistin' and the song YOU would like is GTO by the beach boys - i was listening to that the other day and thought of you while listening - also 409 and little deuce coupe!

remember those????

[anmracing2]

I remember back in the 1980?s in Tucson and Albuquerque, we would race on streets in town every now and then. Racing from one light to another in the middle of the night?. Making a racket on the streets was fun but still pretty dangerous. The cops have always been a pain in the a$$ when it comes to racing. Illegal drag racing has always seem to be an issue the cops have been trying to deal with. If you talk to someone from any generation that was into illegal racing, I bet they will have a story about the races getting busted by the cops?..

I think it is crazy to try and race a M/C anyway? It?s really to bad that it ended the way it did.

Andrew

[AZ Z51]

I seen that on the news this morning,they never said if the driver of the continental was hurt or not.I have no sympathy for the two that were racing.

[Togo]

Illegal drag racing has always seem to be an issue the cops have been trying to deal with. If you talk to someone from any generation that was into illegal racing, I bet they will have a story about the races getting busted by the cops?..

how true - in fact, my dad even told me that he once had a car that had a toggle switch to turn off his tail lights only - so if/when he had to run, he would just walk away and disappear into the night!

after a while the saying became - you can run, but you can't outrun MOTOROLA (or whoever had the radio market at the time)

[3,503 lbs of trouble]

I can't say whether I feel the Vette driver deserves what he got, or whether I feel bad for his situation. All I can say is we all know street racing is wrong, but some of us still do it. The deal is, that Vette owner knows what's up with what he was doing, and the risks involved. Well, shit went wrong, so now he will pay. He played, he lost, now he has to deal with the consequences. Same goes for many of us, myself included. Although not exactly the same situation, many of us choose to partake in more "spirited" driving on some of our runs, and have done things that, if caught, would land our asses in the back seat of a Crown Vic, or worse... Again, don't think I was not aware of what COULD have happened if DPS had been sitting around that next curve, a tire or some other suspension component catastrophically failed, or just ahead grandma suddenly just decided she wanted to drive in the left lane for awhile. Still, I weighed the risks, and chose to feed the high of the adrenaline rush. Are we bad people? No, we are just have some "naughty" fun, but we all know in the back of our heads what could happen as a result of our screwing around. I sincerely hope we never find out. :mellow

[Eddie44]

Well said Dan!

Sure I came from an era when we used to have "Midnight Drags" out at 51st Ave and Bell. But it was all citrus groves and farmhouses then. Was it a safer time then. Probably not, in fact it was probably less safe because we didn't have seatbelts and airbags. I say the old addage applies "he played and no he has to pay". I would definitely believe you'll see the charges against him pled to something less if he gets something besides a public defender.

[BSeery]

I did my fair share of illegal racing back in my days as well.

We were decent enough that we went to an industrial section of town that never had any traffic late at night, especially late on a Friday night. Nice 4 lane with a center island and the place we dragged had no buildings on either side for about 1/2 mile, just light poles and fire hydrants. I never saw a crash out there but saw many police busts, and almost got caught in a few.

Problem was back then they would even arrest you if you were just hanging out shooting the bull with your friends, even if you were not racing at all. They had also just put a "no cruising" law on the main street in town so the city didn't want us hanging out in the middle of town or even out in the boonies. Back then it was more cruising and parking than street racing and we were still getting the city and police on us all the time.

Anyway, I don't do the street racing like the poor bastards above did. I am glad that I don't do that stuff anymore. Yeah, I do some "spirited" driving with the Corvette group and I know that something wrong can happen. I do feel safer with drivers that I know on a highway out of town than the jackass in the 5.0 in the next lane on Chandler Blvd. If I get caught running above legal speeds on our cruise, well, I will just have to take it like a man and pay up. Will I make sure that I am more cautious when I put the pedal down -- yep. I would hate to end up in the slammer because some idiot thought I was racing him and he pilled into a family in a mini-van.

[kingpin]

I can't say whether I feel the Vette driver deserves what he got, or whether I feel bad for his situation. All I can say is we all know street racing is wrong, but some of us still do it. The deal is, that Vette owner knows what's up with what he was doing, and the risks involved. Well, shit went wrong, so now he will pay. He played, he lost, now he has to deal with the consequences. Same goes for many of us, myself included. Although not exactly the same situation, many of us choose to partake in more "spirited" driving on some of our runs, and have done things that, if caught, would land our asses in the back seat of a Crown Vic, or worse... Again, don't think I was not aware of what COULD have happened if DPS had been sitting around that next curve, a tire or some other suspension component catastrophically failed, or just ahead grandma suddenly just decided she wanted to drive in the left lane for awhile. Still, I weighed the risks, and chose to feed the high of the adrenaline rush. Are we bad people? No, we are just have some "naughty" fun, but we all know in the back of our heads what could happen as a result of our screwing around. I sincerely hope we never find out. :mellow

Well put Dan Be safe and most important don't get caught

[anmracing]

Well said Dan!

Sure I came from an era when we used to have "Midnight Drags" out at 51st Ave and Bell. But it was all citrus groves and farmhouses then. Was it a safer time then. Probably not, in fact it was probably less safe because we didn't have seatbelts and airbags. I say the old addage applies "he played and no he has to pay". I would definitely believe you'll see the charges against him pled to something less if he gets something besides a public defender.

Right on guys!

I was amazed when last weekend they reported still busting people racing in that same area of town (Bell Rd), now that it's all built up. That's just crazy! We made a conscious decision to live here so we could race legally and stop all that midnight drags business.

As for 'you play, you may pay', well, I've been there - that's a depressing story for another time.

So, I'm hopeful that when you see how slow I drive, you won't rib me too much. Should I join a group with Chuck?

M~

[knkayotte]

God bless all involved, including the families. We were all 18 and stupid, and lets be honest, I bet a few of us could of been that 18 year old . But for whatever reason we lived through our teens and early twenties.

As for the Vette driver, sounds like he goosed it for a while but got out of it pretty quick. Took balls for him to go back, which was the right thing to do. Often they don't return to the scene and often are not caught.

Don't think he should be charged with manslaughter.

[anmracing]

After watching the channel 3 thing-I started to think 'drag racing' wasn't involved at all. It sounds like two guys who knew each other who were just screwing around, like we all did/do. Let's hope they drop the manslaughter charges before the guy loses the vette paying lawyers.

M~

[Don&Patty]

Togo:

I'm from the Chicago area and Skips was in Oak Park, IL on North Avenue. Was quite a place even in the 60's and 70's. Your right, if you wanted to race someone you drove through pointed and he/she want to race off you went. Sometime right in front of Skips. Cops were there in case a real problem other wise they left you alone. On accassion you amy even see a dragster go through. Spent many hours at Skips having fun. Too bad those days are gone.

[F22trainer]

So where's the strip?? I remember a few years ago a crackdown on street racers in the Glendale area.

I know there have been efforts to get racers off the streets and onto more controlled conditions - my guess is a track operator can't bear the costs of a "hangout" much less the liability, upkeep, security, etc. How do you make something inherently dangerous - safe and fun?

And yes, I'm guilty too. But I aslo feel like some of the burden goes back to education. Kids are impulsive - but if you get their attention, they will listen.

My point is that if the dangers are stressed to everyone who gets a license, they will more carefully weigh the consequences. Anybody ever develop a street racing program with realistic situations, do educational programs stress the long term and unpredicatable emergencies that can happen?

Though I wouldn't know how to begin to go about it, if there were a way to provide both an outlet and opportunities to participate, along with the reality of "what if..." situations as a learning tool, it could be said that the good times we all had in our youth could be even better and safer for everyone in the future.

As technology improves - so should safety, right???

I share Bryan's disdain for street racing, though I get tempted every day by some punk and his really cool muffler on a 4 door import, but I have had my share of "sobering experience" and ignore the impulsive instinct...that's really tough when you would really like to "teach a lesson".

BUT learning about hazardous attitudes is the only way to keep yourself out of a bad situation.

So Dan, what are the 5 hazardous attitudes and their antidotes ???

[Don&Patty]

F22trainer:

When I was in the USAF (about 100 years ago) the 5 hazardous attitudes were, correct me if I'm wrong. . Antiauthority, Macho, Invulnerability, Impulsivity, and Resignation. I use to add the sixth of Controlled Recklessness. Anyway brought back memories of the F105 days. Thanks.