ICULUKN Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 come on Nic... Get over yourself... you told me to go back to ADS and have them fix it before I dump more money into it. You did say that didnt you. I checked the flow rate on the injectors and the calculators I used said that my injectors should be good to 700 RWHP (give or take). I checked with ADS and they said that my injector duty cycle, since I am using methanol is no where near being maxed out. If you dont want to plug into my car again, then that is your business. I did thank you for explaining things to me, as I always have. I was never a dick to you. If you have beef with me, then please feel free to give me a call 480-510-1578 as we can discuss it like men. Nic you have known me for a long time (longer than most of ACE) and know I am not one to do the 'he said, she said' crap. I know you are a talented tuner.... but I have to go with the shop that started the project. Just like Chris, I am tired of throwing good money after bad on this hobby.As for the rest of you experts.(*Chris, Tanya specifically).. I really dont know where you all get off bashing ADS. You have not spent one penny there, nor do you have any substantial experience in building or tuning corvettes. If you were at the track the other weekend, it was ADS (John T and Doug D) that helped Bryan diagonose the issue with his Vega (*No charge and off hours). I dont know of any other shop in the valley that has MULTIPLE 8 second drag cars. ADS only employees ASC certified techs, and have the diagonstic tools to get the job done. I am more than satisfied with the work that has been done to my car by them. Never has the job not been done to my expectations. Just a FYI, there are limitations in the turbo kit that I purchased and like everything else I do, I have pushed it to its limits. This kit was only designed to put out 450 RWHP @ 7#boost. I am getting close to 600 @ 16# boost. The kit has some backpressure issues that I am trying to resolve. If anyone else would like to discuss this thread give me a call... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICULUKN Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Racetronics kits in stock as well as boostapumps :DWhat is the "Racetronics" kit?I have seen some kits now that regulate the voltage of the fuel pumps to match demand. Will that work on a computer controlled car ? Racetronix is a repackaged walbro fuel pump that fits in the stock fule basket. It flows a lot more that the stock pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 come on Nic... Get over yourself... you told me to go back to ADS and have them fix it before I dump more money into it. You did say that didnt you. I checked the flow rate on the injectors and the calculators I used said that my injectors should be good to 700 RWHP (give or take). I checked with ADS and they said that my injector duty cycle, since I am using methanol is no where near being maxed out. If you dont want to plug into my car again, then that is your business. I did thank you for explaining things to me, as I always have. I was never a dick to you. If you have beef with me, then please feel free to give me a call 480-510-1578 as we can discuss it like men. Nic you have known me for a long time (longer than most of ACE) and know I am not one to do the 'he said, she said' crap. I know you are a talented tuner.... but I have to go with the shop that started the project. Just like Chris, I am tired of throwing good money after bad on this hobby.Yes, I did tell you to go back and have them fix the problem. However there was no "dyno differences" between what you just dyno'd last weekend compared to Xtreme or ADS nor was the Meth the problem like you are saying. By saying those things you are making me out to be a liar. With a non-boost referenced fuel system your injectors become a lot smaller with 15 lbs of boost in your intake manifold. 15 psi of boost at the stock LS1 fuel pressure makes those injectors a 42 lb injector. Make sure you are doing your calculations correctly, and you will see what I am talking about. With a boost referenced system those ford 42 lb injectors will only support 600 rwhp MAXED out. Without a boost reference and not going above a 90% duty cycle, it will go down A LOT. The methanol will add to that on top, but your injectors are still maxed out.I never said you were a dick to me and I never had a problem with you, but I have tried to help you for over 2 years to get your car running correctly. How do you think I feel when you keep running back to whatever shop is helping you and taking their advice over the correct advice? Like I said it's nothing personal but I am done trying to help out when you keep going the wrong direction. I don't understand the get over yourself comment however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICULUKN Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Nic, Stoch air/fuel for Methanol (100%) is 5:1 Stoch air/fuel for pump gas (100%) is 12:1. If ADS only tuned the car for pump gas then added meth, then I would run PIG fat. You have to run lean then add methanol to fatten the mix. My get over yourself comment was because I feel as if you are singleing me out because I didnt have you tune my car. We have been friends for a long time. You have been to my house for parties... Why would you turn me away just because I am going in a different direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest XLR8TNC5 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Tanya specifically).. I really dont know where you all get off bashing ADS. You have not spent one penny there, nor do you have any substantial experience in building or tuning corvettes.meEDIT: I have never said one thing about ADS. Neither good nor bad...Ever.....I'm done with this conversation. See you all in the other threads...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togo Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 As for the rest of you experts.(*Chris, Tanya specifically).. I really dont know where you all get off bashing ADS. You have not spent one penny there, nor do you have any substantial experience in building or tuning corvettes. i never claim to be an expert at ANYTHING - my comments are derived from casual observations. i listen to everything you guys say in the hopes to learn something - and i try to listen to the guys driving the fastest cars in the group - as that is where i will get most of the information i may need for my next setup.so let me explain WHAT i hear and why i make my judgements (and i can bet i'm not the only one that hears some of this stuff and make the same judgementsif someone throws countless dollars at a shop with expectations of a certain goal (i believe yours was somewhere north of 600 HP before the nitrous if i recall some of our AIM chats, and around 800 with the nitrous - the exact numbers escape me) and even with a working meth pump being good for 50HP on your setup, that still doesn't attain that number - and where did you get that number? did you estimate based on others setups? or did the shop tell you that's what to expect?then the commens about the money you have spent there on TUNING ALONE - that is a frightening statement to me, and i would bet to others as well. don't get me wrong, i absolutely LOVE your setup on that car, and dream of oneday having a TT setup myself, but at this point, it is ONLY a dream, i don't have the kind of money you are spending on tuning not to mention on a TT setup AND install - i had a guy offer to install a TT setup on my mustang for $5500 (complete - kit, install and tune) that's a hefty chunk to lay down on performance mods for a guy that doesn't make a 6 figure salary - and i remember you telling me that your turbo kit alone was $10K now, you told me, if i want a fast car - all i have to do is buy a $30K car, and dump $30K INTO IT - this now leads me to believe that you have recently dumped all $30K at ADS in recent months - (this is my own assumption - based on rebuilt turbos, new forged bottom end motor and all the labor associated with that, not to mention tuning - and ya know what - i'm not usually a gamblin' man, but i bet that's pretty close to the accurate)so when someone mentions spending that much money with the hopes of attaining a goal, whether derived from their own calculations or from the shops calculations, and then not hitting that goal - seems that all that money spen was in vain.now i hope ADS fixes your car and you make me eat these words, as i would be severly pissed if i spent that kind of money and my car wasn't performing like it should - and i bet you are too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Nic, Stoch air/fuel for Methanol (100%) is 5:1 Stoch air/fuel for pump gas (100%) is 12:1. If ADS only tuned the car for pump gas then added meth, then I would run PIG fat. You have to run lean then add methanol to fatten the mix. My get over yourself comment was because I feel as if you are singleing me out because I didnt have you tune my car. We have been friends for a long time. You have been to my house for parties... Why would you turn me away just because I am going in a different direction.Wideband O2s work off of Lambda, which doesn't have any affect with fuel's rated stoich so pay no attention to that. Yes, you do have to lean out the car to run meth to keep your fueling stable, but if you are supposed to be making 600+ then you will just use the meth on top of the regular gas for the most part. You would still be out of injector and using the meth to add on top.I did not single you out because I didn't tune your car. It was frustration on my part with what you are being told and what I know is right. I didn't tune a lot of people's cars on that dyno day and it didn't bother me in the least. I helped out a lot of people and gave all sorts of advice expecting absolutely nothing in return. That is why I don't go into a full business with tuning and just contract out because I don't want to rely on tuning for income, I do it for fun and because I like to make horsepower. I like you Glenn but you are frustrating the hell out of me. Sometimes I just have to say I gave it my best shot and give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICULUKN Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Well Nic, I would hope that you would still be there for me if I did need you, but that can be discussed later if you choose to. I would have to respectfully disagree that the methanol would reduce my power when it is not working. Methanol does 2 things for my motor. 1 cools the IAT charge. 2. increases octane to prevent detonation. We did not hook up a knock sensor, so the lack of octane or hotter IAT temps may have been the cause of the lower HP number.Chris, The money (about 32k including EVERYTHING). Motor 6kHeads 2kturbo kit 8knew turbos 2kClutch/ tranny brace/ ect 2kexhaust 1kRims/ Tires 3kbrakes 1kHID Lights/ PIAA 1100x 1kInterior guages/ belts/ shifter/ect 2kTuning by multiple shops 2kpolish/ taillights misc 2kI dont worry about the scratch so neither should you. If my car mades 560 RWHP then that is okay. My goal was 600 before nitrous.700-750 on the bottle. I made 560 at ADS. I am willing to accept the limitations of the turbo kit. I am satisfied with the power. Making 525 is a little low considering how lean I was. I hope I have the opportunity to prove you all wrong at the next dyno day. Mike thanks for putting on a great event and helping all us out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AZ Power & Sound Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Racetronics kits in stock as well as boostapumps :DWhat is the "Racetronics" kit?I have seen some kits now that regulate the voltage of the fuel pumps to match demand. Will that work on a computer controlled car ? the racetronics kit is the ONLY aftermarket factory replacement that can use the factory bowl and filler without having to do heavy modification and lose partial fuel capacity... in addition it comes with a "hot wire" kit that connects the fuel pump relay directly to the battery for more voltage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AZ Power & Sound Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 come on Nic... Get over yourself... you told me to go back to ADS and have them fix it before I dump more money into it. You did say that didnt you. I checked the flow rate on the injectors and the calculators I used said that my injectors should be good to 700 RWHP (give or take). I checked with ADS and they said that my injector duty cycle, since I am using methanol is no where near being maxed out. If you dont want to plug into my car again, then that is your business. I did thank you for explaining things to me, as I always have. I was never a dick to you. If you have beef with me, then please feel free to give me a call 480-510-1578 as we can discuss it like men. Nic you have known me for a long time (longer than most of ACE) and know I am not one to do the 'he said, she said' crap. I know you are a talented tuner.... but I have to go with the shop that started the project. Just like Chris, I am tired of throwing good money after bad on this hobby.As for the rest of you experts.(*Chris, Tanya specifically).. I really dont know where you all get off bashing ADS. You have not spent one penny there, nor do you have any substantial experience in building or tuning corvettes. If you were at the track the other weekend, it was ADS (John T and Doug D) that helped Bryan diagonose the issue with his Vega (*No charge and off hours). I dont know of any other shop in the valley that has MULTIPLE 8 second drag cars. ADS only employees ASC certified techs, and have the diagonstic tools to get the job done. I am more than satisfied with the work that has been done to my car by them. Never has the job not been done to my expectations. Just a FYI, there are limitations in the turbo kit that I purchased and like everything else I do, I have pushed it to its limits. This kit was only designed to put out 450 RWHP @ 7#boost. I am getting close to 600 @ 16# boost. The kit has some backpressure issues that I am trying to resolve. If anyone else would like to discuss this thread give me a call... those were Turbo RX 8 second cars long before they were ADS 8 second cars John and Doug are great guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICULUKN Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 those were Turbo RX 8 second cars long before they were ADS 8 second cars John and Doug are great guysWhere is Turbo RX now? Gone the way of the doe-doe. I agree that Doug and John are great guys.... I would hope that most of you would think the same way, after they spent their night at Firebird debugging one of our members cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AZ Power & Sound Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 those were Turbo RX 8 second cars long before they were ADS 8 second cars John and Doug are great guysWhere is Turbo RX now? Gone the way of the doe-doe. I agree that Doug and John are great guys.... I would hope that most of you would think the same way, after they spent their night at Firebird debugging one of our members cars. yeah Turbo is gone... Thats how I got to know John and Doug though... ive know them for almost 6 years now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1EvilC5 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Why is it when I go out of town I miss all the fun.Reading all this is why some of us go out and buy what someone already has dropped $$$$ into a car versus paying for all of it from the begining.I want to make sure that Mike and Nic do not get discouraged from the discussions that their efforts are not appreciated. I am very happy with the work that was completed at AZ Power & Sound and the tune that Nic performed on my Vette. When Mike informed me of the first dyno pull before they began the Cam install, I was upset that "1EvilC5" only laid down 418 rwhp. During the Cam install, Mike found a couple of damaged spark plug wires. No telling how long it was running like that, but all I can say is after the job was complete, I am very happy. So hang in there Glenn and Chris W with your projects, and you will get them were you want them. I can sure tell you that when they are running at their full potential they are a blast to drive. It is very fun leaving a C6 Z06 when they think they are about to blow your doors off. :D Got to love the feeling when you can do that. Chris(Togo) I will be back in town on Saturday evening if you want to stop by on Sunday for the wheels, just give me a call before coming over so I can be around.Later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Well Nic, I would hope that you would still be there for me if I did need you, but that can be discussed later if you choose to. I would have to respectfully disagree that the methanol would reduce my power when it is not working. Methanol does 2 things for my motor. 1 cools the IAT charge. 2. increases octane to prevent detonation. We did not hook up a knock sensor, so the lack of octane or hotter IAT temps may have been the cause of the lower HP number. Don't make any mistake, if I saw you on the side of the road or out at the track and you needed some help I wouldn't hesitate to do so and would be right there for ya. It is just frustrating to keep giving advice only to have it be ignored for 2+ years, just kinda wears a little thin after a while.The only way meth is going to make you lose horsepower is if it is running too rich and it just bogs the motor down. Also if it doesn't turn on running lean will cause knock and pull timing without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest waymirec Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 The money (about 32k including EVERYTHING). Motor 6kHeads 2kturbo kit 8knew turbos 2kClutch/ tranny brace/ ect 2kexhaust 1kRims/ Tires 3kbrakes 1kHID Lights/ PIAA 1100x 1kInterior guages/ belts/ shifter/ect 2kTuning by multiple shops 2kpolish/ taillights misc 2k I feel your pain. The initial build-out of my setup (performance aspect only) was a little over $26k, not including all of the costs over the past couple months trying to get the kinks worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togo Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Why is it when I go out of town I miss all the fun.i don't know - but you should be used to it by now - shouldn't you????Chris(Togo) I will be back in town on Saturday evening if you want to stop by on Sunday for the wheels, just give me a call before coming over so I can be around.well i got the call from the mechanic today and it looks like the truck is done! so i'm going to try and pick it up either today or tomorrow - either way, i'll give ya a buzz and let you know - as far as sunday goes, i'm driving out to dwaynes for a claybar, buff, polish job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kens06 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 This thread has turned into a regular Peyton Place!!Damn, too old!AH, Dallas?? JR Ewing??How about 90210? Are we getting the idea yet?A fricking Soap Opera!!!Too much ...............I can get this at CF and laugh or cus at people I don't know!!I'm gonna , because I'm posting too much here anyway!!Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie44 Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 well i got the call from the mechanic today and it looks like the truck is done! so i'm going to try and pick it up either today or tomorrow - either way, i'll give ya a buzz and let you know - as far as sunday goes, i'm driving out to dwaynes for a claybar, buff, polish job Dwayne is having a Corvette Saturday and didn't invite the rest of us??? What's up with that?? Oh yeah, I don't have a Vette to claybar, polish or even drive! :mad :mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeery Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 You and Dwayne are going to be playing with clay and buffing and polishing ??? (sorry -- trying to hijack this thread with some off color humor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3,503 lbs of trouble Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 You and Dwayne are going to be playing with clay and buffing and polishing ??? (sorry -- trying to hijack this thread with some off color humor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togo Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 well i got the call from the mechanic today and it looks like the truck is done! so i'm going to try and pick it up either today or tomorrow - either way, i'll give ya a buzz and let you know - as far as sunday goes, i'm driving out to dwaynes for a claybar, buff, polish jobDwayne is having a Corvette Saturday and didn't invite the rest of us??? What's up with that?? Oh yeah, I don't have a Vette to claybar, polish or even drive! :mad :mad it's not corvette SATURDAY - it's corvette SUNDAY!it took me a minute bryan, but i just got it, and can't help but laugh now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92ZR1Wannabe Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 You and Dwayne are going to be playing with clay and buffing and polishing ??? (sorry -- trying to hijack this thread with some off color humor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie44 Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 One of the all time great love scenes. I've encouraged my wife to throw pots ever since we saw that scene, but she just didn't take it the same way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sidewinder Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 a clay bar, buff and polish job cost 70 bucks in vegas. What's he charging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 a clay bar, buff and polish job cost 70 bucks in vegas. What's he charging? Hey look, the mustang guy is trying to be funny..... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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