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Dyno Day October 05 Results!


Guest AZ Power & Sound

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AZ Power and Sound.

My car is going back to ADS to verify that the A/F is okay with the methanol spraying. It would seem like there is a big variation between dynos.

Chris put down 633 on Extreme's dyno, but only seemed to muster 508 on yours

I think Extreme is planning a 'all cars' dyno day. Hopefully we can resolve the dyno differences.

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nothing's gonna get resolved unless you do apples to apples comparisons - so will you run it BEFORE it get's checked by ADS - that would be the ultimate test

but DAMN think about that - if that's the case, that would mean phil is putting close to 700HP at the rear wheels if there's that big of a discrepency!

:crazy

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My last dyno @ Xtreme was a year ago tomorrow after the fresh tune with the 205's and fresh X2 cam. I was 417hp/397tq. Sat at AZ P&S it was 425/380 something! I don't see any difference except I think the 01 rings with 33,800mi are finally broke in!! :burnout:lol

Ken

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dyno differences? You are kidding right? A dynojet is a dynojet is a dynojet.

I am done trying to help.

I wonder about some of these people too. I dynoed 307 RWHP in Westminster Co at 5,400 ft. Here I dynoed 345 RWHP. I'm just a cam only LS1. As someone who does all of my own work other than some PCM editing, there is no way the AZ P&S dyno can be very far off.

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I am done trying to help.

EDIT:

What suggestions did you have? I didn't see any posted and wondered what you thought may have caused the differences in results.

Sorry for the other reply -- it sucked and should have been more clear.

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My last dyno @ Xtreme was a year ago tomorrow after the fresh tune with the 205's and fresh X2 cam. I was 417hp/397tq. Sat at AZ P&S it was 425/380 something! I don't see any difference except I think the 01 rings with 33,800mi are finally broke in!! :burnout:lol

Ken

Heck, that little difference could have just been air temperature. It was a nice decent day out so that's worth a few HP here and there.

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Guest XLR8TNC5

I am done trying to help.

When did you even start ?

Bryan, wth does that mean?

Nic was helping everyone out a TREMENDOUS deal at the Dyno day event. And he spent a great deal of time with you and your car trying to look at the information and get some good pulls for your car. I am hoping I am misunderstanding your question, because Nic helped a lot of people and he was VERY gracious and courteous and spent a lot of time with Glenn, Chris Waymire, and a few others, as well as myself that day. And he continues to still answer every single question I have thrown at him the past three weeks and he is very well respected when it comes to his understanding and tuning abilities on LS1 motors. What impressed me was his enthusiasm and zest at trying to help you and learn your car last Saturday.

Wow.....Im just shocked at the last couple parts of this thread.

I am not trying to start anything, but I don't blame Nic for his comment. Both he and Mike have been totally upstanding people since they appeared on this board and I think it is unfortunate that everyone, is comparing them to ADS & Extreme. And doing so in such a beligerent, negative, and very antagonistic way. Im sorry but people are going to have to realize there is always someone better somewhere and right now, AZP&S happens to be the someone right now. End of story.

Tanya

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3,503 lbs of trouble

I am done trying to help.

When did you even start ?

Bryan, wth does that mean?

Wow.....Im just shocked at the last couple parts of this thread.

Tanya

r_drama.jpg

:lurk

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I am done trying to help.

When did you even start ?

Bryan, wth does that mean?

Nic was helping everyone out a TREMENDOUS deal at the Dyno day event. And he spent a great deal of time with you and your car trying to look at the information and get some good pulls for your car. I am hoping I am misunderstanding your question, because Nic helped a lot of people and he was VERY gracious and courteous and spent a lot of time with Glenn, Chris Waymire, and a few others, as well as myself that day. And he continues to still answer every single question I have thrown at him the past three weeks and he is very well respected when it comes to his understanding and tuning abilities on LS1 motors. What impressed me was his enthusiasm and zest at trying to help you and learn your car last Saturday.

Wow.....Im just shocked at the last couple parts of this thread.

I am not trying to start anything, but I don't blame Nic for his comment. Both he and Mike have been totally upstanding people since they appeared on this board and I think it is unfortunate that everyone, is comparing them to ADS & Extreme. And doing so in such a beligerent, negative, and very antagonistic way. Im sorry but people are going to have to realize there is always someone better somewhere and right now, AZP&S happens to be the someone right now. End of story.

Tanya

First of all, I did not start this thread or even come off with any drama. My cars meth pump crapped out and I went lean. I had another pump overnighted, and the issue is fixed. I paid ADS to tune my car and I will have them finish it. I am sure Nick is a great tuner. I cant wait to hear about Chris's car (nick was tuning it today). I cant wait for extreme to host their dyno day, so I can put all this drama to rest.

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Tanya - your right -- I worded that ALL wrong.

Nic said he was done trying to help and I meant to ask what his suggestions were. I didn't see him post anything but to say "I am done trying to help" My question was "when did you even start?" Worded all wrong, but I wanted to find out in what other post did he offer any suggestions. I didn't see any and wanted to read them so I could understand why there were so many different results.

It's one of those time where word choice was wrong. I didn't mean to imply that he was never any help, that would be all wrong. I meant to find out what help he had suggested.

Nic -- sorry to make it sound like I was bashing you. I am not that kind of a person. And I do appreciate the help that you did give on dyno day for my car and the other members.

Tanya - thanks for pointing out how this was taken wrong -- my bad.

Anyone else -- I am not bashing anyone. I am happy with the dyno results and understand that on "any given day" one car may not do it's best. Glenn's and Chris's cars have some issues that kept them from performing at their best. That is what the dyno day was all about. Find out for sure what your car is doing and what can be done.

Also, if ADS or Xtreme want to host a dyno day -- fine let them host it. We have many members who are loyal to many different shops. It also lets the other members see the other shops and personnel and lets them chose on their own. I know that Xtreme has a similar dyno to AZ Power so hopefully results will be the same and we can use them as a comparison to AZ Power's dyno testing. ADS uses a different dyno so results may differ and might not be the best for "apple to apple" comparison.

Nic -- can you fill us in more on what help you were suggesting? Why were the results from Xtreme for Chris's car and the results from AZ Power's dyno so different?

I will edit my first post to be a little more clear in my question. Sorry for any one that got offended.

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I am done trying to help.

When did you even start ?

last i recall about this bryan was at the first track day we had (where i lost my virginity) i recall nic and glenn involved in a lengthy conversation when we were in the staging lanes and nic graciously offered to have a look at the car for him - i asked him who that was and he rattled off something to the effect of - that guy knows his shiot.

i also see glenns point - when you pay someone a TON of money to do something, you expect it to be done right - so i don't blame him for going to ADS for them to get it worked out - however, if it were me, i'd have been done with ADS a LONG time ago - and would almost be ashamed to have worn that Tshirt to not only AZ P&S but to the pavillions as he said he was doing.

perhaps the meth pump was the culprit - but how much horsepower do you think that pump will give you? (i'm asking a serious question as i have no idea)

and waymires' car is absolutely unexcuseable - hopefully nic can work his magic on that car

this is not about who's right or wrong, i'm actually looking at it as learning from others mistakes - hopefully the others can learn from their own mistakes as well.

what i have realized in all of this is the simple fact - money is usually a factor in purchases - but customer service is now key - especially in the car arena. and from what i have heard about xtreme and their apparent lack of communication or follow up and the obvious lack of a decent tune - i wouldn't let them tune my lawnmower!

ADS - well my impression of them is that they have been doing beer work for champagne prices. as i recall - glenn said he was wearing their shirt because they have been hooking him up - but from previous conversations i recall him saying how much money he had in tuning from them - and for the money he's spent there, that car should have a built in oil slick, smoke screen, rockets behind the headlights and practically be able to drive itself.

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that car should have a built in oil slick, smoke screen, rockets behind the headlights and practically be able to drive itself.

Sorry - you have his confused with Dan Wilson's car. His is the one that looks like it is hiding something.

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Nic was helping everyone out a TREMENDOUS deal at the Dyno day event. And he spent a great deal of time with you and your car trying to look at the information and get some good pulls for your car. I am hoping I am misunderstanding your question, because Nic helped a lot of people and he was VERY gracious and courteous and spent a lot of time with Glenn, Chris Waymire, and a few others, as well as myself that day. And he continues to still answer every single question I have thrown at him the past three weeks and he is very well respected when it comes to his understanding and tuning abilities on LS1 motors. What impressed me was his enthusiasm and zest at trying to help you and learn your car last Saturday.

Wow.....Im just shocked at the last couple parts of this thread.

I am not trying to start anything, but I don't blame Nic for his comment. Both he and Mike have been totally upstanding people since they appeared on this board and I think it is unfortunate that everyone, is comparing them to ADS & Extreme. And doing so in such a beligerent, negative, and very antagonistic way. Im sorry but people are going to have to realize there is always someone better somewhere and right now, AZP&S happens to be the someone right now. End of story.

Tanya

Well said Tanya! :thumbs

I'm a neutral bystander here because I didn't even have a Vette to dyno that day but I witnessed both Nic and Mike go out of their way to be courteous and helpful. I don't think it's fair to compare dynos or bad mouth either of them. As some one said with Glenn's example of Chris' car then Phil should be somewhere north of 700 hp.

I don't want to start anything either but why is it that I've been involved with ACE for over 2 yrs and never seen anything but a Poker Run stop at Extreme (and they couldn't even put out a chest of water for folks) Now that Mike has gone out of his way to host this event (buying pizza and drinks for everyone) we suddenly have word that Extreme is going to host a dyno day? I know this sounds negative Chad but it's truly just an observation. I respect your reputation with folks on this forum and the "other" forum.

It just seems like we're developing a dyno war that I don't think benefits any of us in ACE and I don't believe will benefit either shop.

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I cant wait to hear about Chris's car (nick was tuning it today).

Are there any results yet? Find anything wrong with the tune or the hardware?

I wanna see that car run it's full potential so we can stop bashing him about he license plates.

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Guest Sidewinder
well my impression of them is that they have been doing beer work for champagne prices

Anybody else hear him say beer? :yesnod

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Guest waymirec
I cant wait to hear about Chris's car (nick was tuning it today).

Are there any results yet? Find anything wrong with the tune or the hardware?

I wanna see that car run it's full potential so we can stop bashing him about he license plates.

Some results. Still a work in progress (aka money pit). After nic's tuning it managed to squeeze out a 598 rwhp at which point he said it was running out of fuel. Looks like i'll be getting a quote on beefing up the fuel system. Other then that the only other issue was the mysterious pulling-of-timing which appears to be due to a false knock which hopefully we can locate and resolve. Honestly at this point I dont care WHO fixes the problems i'm having, only that they get fixed. There are days where I question whether or not it's worth the hassle.

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3,503 lbs of trouble
that car should have a built in oil slick, smoke screen, rockets behind the headlights and practically be able to drive itself.

Sorry - you have his confused with Dan Wilson's car. His is the one that looks like it is hiding something.

It's got a Hemi. :yesnod

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Guest AZ Power & Sound
AZ Power and Sound.

My car is going back to ADS to verify that the A/F is okay with the methanol spraying. It would seem like there is a big variation between dynos.

Chris put down 633 on Extreme's dyno, but only seemed to muster 508 on yours

I think Extreme is planning a 'all cars' dyno day. Hopefully we can resolve the dyno differences.

we have the EXACT same dyno Xtreme does... only difference is theirs isnt in ground. We have done back to back comparos with cars that have dynod with us and them... generally 2-3 hp difference which mainly comes from whoevers bay is the coolest that day! :D

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Guest AZ Power & Sound
Nic was helping everyone out a TREMENDOUS deal at the Dyno day event. And he spent a great deal of time with you and your car trying to look at the information and get some good pulls for your car. I am hoping I am misunderstanding your question, because Nic helped a lot of people and he was VERY gracious and courteous and spent a lot of time with Glenn, Chris Waymire, and a few others, as well as myself that day. And he continues to still answer every single question I have thrown at him the past three weeks and he is very well respected when it comes to his understanding and tuning abilities on LS1 motors. What impressed me was his enthusiasm and zest at trying to help you and learn your car last Saturday.

Wow.....Im just shocked at the last couple parts of this thread.

I am not trying to start anything, but I don't blame Nic for his comment. Both he and Mike have been totally upstanding people since they appeared on this board and I think it is unfortunate that everyone, is comparing them to ADS & Extreme. And doing so in such a beligerent, negative, and very antagonistic way. Im sorry but people are going to have to realize there is always someone better somewhere and right now, AZP&S happens to be the someone right now. End of story.

Tanya

Well said Tanya! :thumbs

I'm a neutral bystander here because I didn't even have a Vette to dyno that day but I witnessed both Nic and Mike go out of their way to be courteous and helpful. I don't think it's fair to compare dynos or bad mouth either of them. As some one said with Glenn's example of Chris' car then Phil should be somewhere north of 700 hp.

I don't want to start anything either but why is it that I've been involved with ACE for over 2 yrs and never seen anything but a Poker Run stop at Extreme (and they couldn't even put out a chest of water for folks) Now that Mike has gone out of his way to host this event (buying pizza and drinks for everyone) we suddenly have word that Extreme is going to host a dyno day? I know this sounds negative Chad but it's truly just an observation. I respect your reputation with folks on this forum and the "other" forum.

It just seems like we're developing a dyno war that I don't think benefits any of us in ACE and I don't believe will benefit either shop.

lucky for us its just friendly competition! Chad and I are good friends and I would never say anything negative about him personally, and im sure the same for him to me! He helps me out a lot and I help him out a lot... Im also good friends with many of the guys at ADS, and have been for almost 9 years (back in the Turbo RX days!) I dont hate either shop, and will continue to be friends with them putting businesses aside when it comes down to what matters! Besides, thats what loving cars is all about... HAVING FUN AND MAKING FRIENDS!! :drinkers

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Guest AZ Power & Sound
I cant wait to hear about Chris's car (nick was tuning it today).

Are there any results yet? Find anything wrong with the tune or the hardware?

I wanna see that car run it's full potential so we can stop bashing him about he license plates.

Some results. Still a work in progress (aka money pit). After nic's tuning it managed to squeeze out a 598 rwhp at which point he said it was running out of fuel. Looks like i'll be getting a quote on beefing up the fuel system. Other then that the only other issue was the mysterious pulling-of-timing which appears to be due to a false knock which hopefully we can locate and resolve. Honestly at this point I dont care WHO fixes the problems i'm having, only that they get fixed. There are days where I question whether or not it's worth the hassle.

Racetronics kits in stock as well as boostapumps :D

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perhaps the meth pump was the culprit - but how much horsepower do you think that pump will give you? (i'm asking a serious question as i have no idea)

A methanol pump is boost referenced. That is the reason why the more boost, the more lean it went when the pump wasnt there. Considering that methanol is 116 octane and has great cooling properties, its worth at least 50 RWHP on my car. For example when everyone elses car is reading 160 degree ambient air, Blackula will read 70 degees IAT.

Since I was lean my dyno curve is not what it should have been with torque.

We didnt even get to spray the sauce!! :D

Nic and I have been friends for a long time, long before I even knew most of you. Nic even recommended that ADS put it back on the rollers in an attempt to save me some money.

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I don't want to start anything either but why is it that I've been involved with ACE for over 2 yrs and never seen anything but a Poker Run stop at Extreme (and they couldn't even put out a chest of water for folks) Now that Mike has gone out of his way to host this event (buying pizza and drinks for everyone) we suddenly have word that Extreme is going to host a dyno day? I know this sounds negative Chad but it's truly just an observation. I respect your reputation with folks on this forum and the "other" forum.

Well, back in the day (and I only mention this to bring some of the newer people up to speed with the long time members) Xtreme did host a dyno day. Food and all. It was in Feb of 2002 if I remember correctly.

Original ACE member Bill Reid worked there for a while and while I am sure it was more of his doing that anyone else at Xtreme, they did give us a $100 donation on the last poker run.

We were trying to get another dyno day going with them, but then Bill got let go and it just got dropped.

Not stirring the pot - just saying each shop has helped out members of ACE.

By the way - click the link to see my dyno run on the Xtreme dyno. Back in the day when the car had no mods done to it.

http://members.cox.net/zz4/BryanDyno2.mpg

Chris - glad to hear you are getting closer to the tune on your car. I know a lot of times it is "fix this" only to find out that "this that and 20 other things" now need repair or upgrading. Try owning an older car. Then it's "fix this" and find out 20 other things were already broken and you just now found out. :banghead

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Racetronics kits in stock as well as boostapumps :D

What is the "Racetronics" kit?

I have seen some kits now that regulate the voltage of the fuel pumps to match demand. Will that work on a computer controlled car ?

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I am done trying to help.

EDIT:

What suggestions did you have? I didn't see any posted and wondered what you thought may have caused the differences in results.

Sorry for the other reply -- it sucked and should have been more clear.

I was referring to Glenn only. If he really wants to believe that the dyno was "off" when he dyno'd his car or the meth was the only problem then nothing I said to him or showed him mattered or I was lying about it. That I don't appreciate and that is why I said I was done with that car and I won't be touching it again. I have only told him this for the past 2+ years that I could fix his car and make it run right but I guess he doesn't believe me. I didn't mean that I was done trying to help everybody else. Sorry for the confusion. I don't have anything against Mike or Chad at xtreme either, i have known them for a while and they are good guys. That doesn't make it easy for me in this position to tell somebody that their tune is really messed up because I don't want it to come across as a bash.

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