K&N and Other Filters Vs OEM

[Cross]

I talked about this thread a long time ago but the pictures were gone, well now they are present.

I would be curious to see if this time we can get a decent debate since we have all the figures from the test and its very clear that an oiled K&N not only lets more dirt through but is not all that much better than say an AFE that allows a lot less dirt through or the OEM which obviously does a better job filtering but doesn't flow as well.

Yes they flow better but at what cost is it worth it?

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms.

Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons.

[Unreal]

So trade flow for filtering. Question is how much filtering is needed and what is the difference in motor life vs 98% filtering and 96% or whatever the values are. Plenty of cars with TONs of miles with K&N style filters. I think bearings/etc wear out faster than anything related to sucking in a little dust.

What does ingesting a bit of dust do to a motor? Wear rings? Break pistons? Valve seats?

[Cross]

So trade flow for filtering. Question is how much filtering is needed and what is the difference in motor life vs 98% filtering and 96% or whatever the values are. Plenty of cars with TONs of miles with K&N style filters. I think bearings/etc wear out faster than anything related to sucking in a little dust.

What does ingesting a bit of dust do to a motor? Wear rings? Break pistons? Valve seats?

Thats a great question but this is the point that really made me decide against K&N Filters personally:

In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms.

Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons.

[Unreal]

I need more data than that. What is bad? That could be like saying your compression went from 200psi to 199.9. Without a spec of what is good or bad it may not make a difference. Say the limit to hurt the motor is 10gms, I would be concerned. If the limit is 10k gms, then I really don't care.

Now if both make the same power, go for the better filter. What if the K&N makes 600rwhp and the delco 550rwhp? The only difference is the K&N motor will last 290k miles instead of 300k?

Pulling my filter on my car went from 917rwhp to 956rwhp. Almost a 40hp gain at the tires. For racing I'm all for pulling the filer.

I wish I got to pull it last time I dynode, that alone probably would have passed 1100rwhp.

[Cross]

I need more data than that. What is bad? That could be like saying your compression went from 200psi to 199.9. Without a spec of what is good or bad it may not make a difference. Say the limit to hurt the motor is 10gms, I would be concerned. If the limit is 10k gms, then I really don't care.

Now if both make the same power, go for the better filter. What if the K&N makes 600rwhp and the delco 550rwhp? The only difference is the K&N motor will last 290k miles instead of 300k?

Pulling my filter on my car went from 917rwhp to 956rwhp. Almost a 40hp gain at the tires. For racing I'm all for pulling the filer.

I wish I got to pull it last time I dynode, that alone probably would have passed 1100rwhp.

That's then what we need to know but here how about this one on your comparison.

The AFE vs K&N:

Capturing Dirt -

AC Delco 99.96%

AFE 99.93%

K&N 96.8%

Capacity before reaching flow limit -

AC Delco 573.9

AFE 232.5

K&N 196.3

Amount of Dirt Passed - (In 60 Minutes with the exception of the K&N which numbers were taken after 24 Minutes)

AC Delco .4

AFE 1.8

K&N 7.0

Flow Resistance -

AC Delco 6.23

AFE 4.99

K&N 4.54

[Desertdawg]

I think that if your after that last few HP on the dyno or 10th of a second on the track, then run a K&N or nothing at all, but for daily driving the added protection is worth a couple of HP....

Curt, did you remove an aftermarket or stock filter for 40 HP???

[porvette]

During Porsche's tests, they found K.N filter dropped a full 10HP at the wheels on all of our Porsche's. We run the standard Bosch filters.

[Unreal]

I'm not Curt but it was a K&N style filter that gain 40rwhp. Filter restriction becomes a lot more important on blower/turbo setups and high HP setups. On a 400-500 car the filter probably isn't an issue. On an 800+ car it very well can be. Like I said, it all depends on what you are building and want. I know of people running chicken wire over the inlet of turbos for years with no issues, just keep the big stuff out.

[HOXXOH]

I've taken the dirt that was shaken out of a paper filter and dumped it on a filter mfg by K&N and had a significant amount go straight through. But the real question should relate to how much dirt is in the air that needs filtered.

With a stock location filter on a C5/C6 being driven in Vermont forest roads during the winter, acquiring dust is nearly impossible. However, put a CAI on that same car in the AZ deserts in summer and the dust will choke a filter quickly.

Keep in mind that the best filtration is obtained on a really good filter that is at the end of it's life, while the maximum power is obtained with no filter. Anything else is a compromise.

Here's one more fact that may have you checking the dirt from your snot on the Kleenex. A LS2 at a steady 60 MPH on a 1600 mile trip will breathe in the same amount of air that an average human does during a 75 year lifetime. Or expressed in a different way, a LS7 at redline breathes in one minute what the owner does in a whole day.

[Desertdawg]

I'm not Curt.....

My bad, Sorry to confuse you with Ned. I'll get the 3 of youze guys figured out one day!

Tom, does it count if I breath real shallow?

[Cross]

I'm not Curt.....

My bad, Sorry to confuse you with Ned. I'll get the 3 of youze guys figured out one day!

Tom, does it count if I breath real shallow?

Stop calling my work number breathing like that!