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Ditching E85+methanol for 91+methanol


Jon

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Getting the MAF closer. A little dip to 10.2-10.3 going into boost, then 10.8-10.9 all the way up.

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Just outside Bagdad on my data logging 8hr journey a couple days ago.

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I never understood the reason for running 85 % ethanol, vs running straight methanol.

I understand the reason for running alcohol. det resistance, octane, cold fuel, oh yeah, it smells good :)

What would be the reason// besides you can buy e85 out of some obscure pump at a gas station, methanol, no pump with a credit card.

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In some areas e85 is pretty common and you can get it just about anywhere. Out here there are 3-4 stations so you just have to map it out. It works good for high octane if you need that to make power. Also cost is way less than pure e100.

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I never understood the reason for running 85 % ethanol, vs running straight methanol.

I understand the reason for running alcohol. det resistance, octane, cold fuel, oh yeah, it smells good :)

What would be the reason// besides you can buy e85 out of some obscure pump at a gas station, methanol, no pump with a credit card.

Methanol makes more power, period.

The downsides are why I still run E85. To produce that power, I would need nearly twice as much methanol, plus methanol is much more corrosive than gasoline, whereby ethanol is not as corrosive as gasoline.

I also don't need to keep a couple of drums at the house to fuel up.

I have teflon lines, so besides the methanol completely destroying my fuel level senders, I could run it. But the 3 to 5% power increase and dramatically increased fuel consumption are simply not worth it to me, personally.

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Parker your post makes it seem like your calling methanol and ethanol the same. You say fuel economy loss with meth but you mean ethanol. I know you don't mean it that way but others who read this and don't know might not get it.

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Parker your post makes it seem like your calling methanol and ethanol the same. You say fuel economy loss with meth but you mean ethanol. I know you don't mean it that way but others who read this and don't know might not get it.

I didn't read it that way at all.
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He is saying a fuel loss with methanol and destroying his fuel level sender's. Methanol is not stored in your gas tank it's in a separate reservoir that sprays before the throttle body. Ethanol ie e85 you will have a loss of fuel mileage. A 91 Octane with meth will get better gas mileage than an e85 car.

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He is saying a fuel loss with methanol and destroying his fuel level sender's. Methanol is not stored in your gas tank it's in a separate reservoir that sprays before the throttle body. Ethanol ie e85 you will have a loss of fuel mileage. A 91 Octane with meth will get better gas mileage than an e85 car.

Yup. I use a 15gph nozzle and the washer fluid reservoir is my meth tank. I'm in boost A LOT and I've used 7 gallons of methanol in 6000ish miles. Unreal uses way less methanol than I do as he lives in town and can't get away with driving like a hooligan.

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He is saying a fuel loss with methanol and destroying his fuel level sender's. Methanol is not stored in your gas tank it's in a separate reservoir that sprays before the throttle body. Ethanol ie e85 you will have a loss of fuel mileage. A 91 Octane with meth will get better gas mileage than an e85 car.

I am talking about filling the tank with methanol and using it as the sole source of fueling. I am not talking about supplemental methanol injection. If you don't believe it will destroy the senders, go ahead and try it and report back :)

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He is saying a fuel loss with methanol and destroying his fuel level sender's. Methanol is not stored in your gas tank it's in a separate reservoir that sprays before the throttle body. Ethanol ie e85 you will have a loss of fuel mileage. A 91 Octane with meth will get better gas mileage than an e85 car.

I am talking about filling the tank with methanol and using it as the sole source of fueling. I am not talking about supplemental methanol injection. If you don't believe it will destroy the senders, go ahead and try it and report back :)
The discussion was using a specific fuel available at the pump and spraying methanol on top. Hence why I asked as your statement didn't seem to follow that discussion, I know you know what your talking about in this instance just wasn't sure if it was a phone autocorrect thing or what.
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No, I was replying directly to Dale68Z, who was asking why use E85 as a fuel instead of methanol.

So I explained why I don't use it :)

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No, I was replying directly to Dale68Z, who was asking why use E85 as a fuel instead of methanol. So I explained why I don't use it :)

Right on. Agreed on your reasoning.
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Most folks want to put methanol and ethanol together under the same category of alcohol based fuels. They do, in fact, act and react very differently. Additionally, the fuel mileage disadvantage with ethanol or E85 pales in comparison to the mileage restrictions of methanol.

Ethanol has a stoichiometric ratio of 9:1; E85 9.7:1; and methanol at about 5.4:1. Compared against gasoline with a stoichiometric ratio of 14.65:1, it takes about 3 times as much methanol, and a little less than twice as much ethanol versus gasoline to combust at peak efficiency.

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Fuel economy wise, my dirt track modified on methanol, got about 5/8 of a mile to the gallon :)

I did not know ethanol was not as corrosive as methanol. I also did not know ethanol was a fat mix vs. methanol.

I also thought you guys were running e85 in the fuel tank. Not just spraying it when under boost.

I really did not have any corrosion issues running methanol unless a fuel system part was made of aluminum and the plating on the part got scratched. However fuel pressure gauges were a regular maintenance item, lasted less than a year.

What is the octane of ethanol?

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I do run E85 in the fuel tank, 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. i also run auxiliary methanol injection, just for evaporative cooling of the charge air mixture after the intercooler.

E85 octane varies a little based on the type of gas it is mixed with, but it is about 105 or so when compared to conventional racing fuel for anti-knock characteristics. I do not think any empirical testing has ever been done to determine the actual octane value, so all we really have are educated (and not so educated) guesses.

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This tech paper uses a specific engine with different compression ratios to try and draw some conclusions about E85 octane. But there is a contingent, myself included, that believe the R+M/2 rating in the paper for E85 does not reflect real world experiences.

Another interesting item of note is the IMEP generated by E85 compared to gasoline, no wonder hot rodders enjoy the stuff.

http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2010-01-0619.pdf

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I never understood the reason for running 85 % ethanol, vs running straight methanol.

I understand the reason for running alcohol. det resistance, octane, cold fuel, oh yeah, it smells good :)

What would be the reason// besides you can buy e85 out of some obscure pump at a gas station, methanol, no pump with a credit card.

Methanol makes more power, period.

The downsides are why I still run E85. To produce that power, I would need nearly twice as much methanol, plus methanol is much more corrosive than gasoline, whereby ethanol is not as corrosive as gasoline.

I also don't need to keep a couple of drums at the house to fuel up.

I have teflon lines, so besides the methanol completely destroying my fuel level senders, I could run it. But the 3 to 5% power increase and dramatically increased fuel consumption are simply not worth it to me, personally.

So are you saying that you are not willing to sacrifice to win? Please respond.

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What is another 3-5% when you are at the top of the food chain already. Wouldn't someone have to beat him first?

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  • 3 weeks later...

What is another 3-5% when you are at the top of the food chain already. Wouldn't someone have to beat him first?

Hard to be at the top of the food chain when you don't race anybody when called out....

PS. I'm available all next week after 6pm.

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What is another 3-5% when you are at the top of the food chain already. Wouldn't someone have to beat him first?

Hard to be at the top of the food chain when you don't race anybody when called out.... PS. I'm available all next week after 6pm.

Unfortunately, I am not, but I agree, I believe settling this matter should come in the near future. I will try to make it out to WHP as soon as I am able and let you know when.
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