Cross Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I am thinking about paying the single credit and switching to a Speed Density Tune. I am also thinking about putting in the 2 Bar GM MAP Sensor too just to make it worth it. I have really gotten the MAP side tuned right where I want it and every time I work with the MAF my idle issues return eventually. I have messed with it gotten help and it always seems to be an issue. I have never minded the extra time to tune the VE Table on MAP but at this point I am seriously considering pulling the trigger. So those of you here who deal with this, I would really like your thoughts. Pro's and Con's? The car eventually will be Supercharged unless I finally pull the trigger on a 100 Shot. But those are the two paths down the road it will most likely take. I have tuned the MAF multiple times and it seems fine, but it always seems to run the best on the MAP/VE Settings with the MAF Disabled. I have also cleaned the MAF and the connections are all good. Its not giving me any error codes either. (Figured these questions might come up) As long as I am willing to spend the time getting the VE table dialed in this should not be an issue correct? I have the wideband, I have the time to go through it and the RTT feature should be useful. Is there anything else I should know or be concerned with? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 If you are the one doing the tuning and spending the time then I say it's worth it. For the normal dude paying Nic to tune their car, I would say don't bother as you need to keep on top the tune as the weather changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewstein Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 If you are the one doing the tuning and spending the time then I say it's worth it. For the normal dude paying Nic to tune their car, I would say don't bother as you need to keep on top the tune as the weather changes. No to both. If you're staying NA there's no reason to go SD on your setup. Only consider the switch when you're going outside the MAF tables. You also don't need to touch the tune due to weather if Nic or anyone else tunes it SD. As long as the table exists, the computer will use it. A good example is if you pickup a couple psi when it gets cold out, the car's reading the MAP and using the inputs provided. I'm SD. Nic tweaked the tune from IPS. I don't have to touch it even when switching from 700 to 1000rwhp, winter or summer. I won't have to touch it unless I gain the ability to go outside the tables which means turning the boost past what's been tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 The reason I choose a 2 Bar is because if I was going to do a Speed Density I figured I should lay a foundation that allows for the Magnacharger I want in the future. (Instead of paying twice). I don't mind doing the work at all, hell I would think I have my VE table pretty close as it is. I just want to be able to enjoy the car and there does seem to be a solid difference between with and without the MAF. I have gotten it to where most everything is spot on but this idle pain in the ass has haunted me for some time. I can get it close but never spot on it will still randomly stall out. I am going to try one more thing, last night I had loaded the changes from using the Russ K Idle Config and it seemed great until after driving all night it started getting bad again. But at this point I have also gotten a spot on Wideband reading and no issues driving when I have the MAF set to fail an I am doing VE Tuning. Its really hard to ignore the difference any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewstein Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Depending on the boost you're going to run you probably won't max out the MAF with just a maggie. I'm confident a good SD tune wouldn't be noticeable, but I also don't believe you need it. See if the tuning gods can shed some more light on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Unless somebody really needs SD I don't recommend it. First off it's considered a fall back mode in the Gen3 PCMs and you lose some things like misfire detection which can help in diagnosing other issues and the warm/cold starts can be kind of flaky as well. Especially on warm starts you have to throw a ton of artificial enrichment at the PCM to keep your a/f in check for the first minute or two. It's something you can work around but it's there and I really believe it's just because GM designed it as a fallback and it didn't really receive the QA or time invested compared to it's normal MAF/VE blend operation. Then you run into the OS differences of the 97-00 vs 01-04 on the C5s anyways as far as how temperature (ECT/IAT) plays a role in fueling ESPECIALLY in SD. Some people like the earlier tables and some like the later year tables, I'm pretty indifferent on that as well since they both have their own advantages and disadvantages. Long story short on the Gen3 PCMs you should have no problems with a MAF in place on a setup like yours and I wouldn't choose to run it in SD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 Thank you Nic, I did not get a chance to go out and play with it again but I will today. No SD then seems like the better answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieG Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I'm running 2 bar MAP on LS3 with Eforce SC, I've had toying around with MAF and spark tables for a while and had it tuned pretty good, going the additional license provided additional VE tables that help tuning above 1 BAR I'm still a newbie in this area, I have a lot of guidance though through HPTuners Personally if non FI, don't waste your time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I am really with Nic here, unless we are talking about an application with excessively large ports, or a gigantic cam. In those instances, low RPM reversion across the MAF can play hell below 3,000 RPM or so. In that instance, I would build a SD table for low end, then switch it over to MAF when the reversion disappears. Other than that, a MAF will be fine in most applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 I have played with it a lot (I noticed someone posted here but its gone.. maybe it was the big boards) and I have it really close on idle again but its the same damn issue, sometimes its just fine no issues does great, then others its a bitch and just refuses. Its not nearly as much anymore, thanks to some of the advice here I narrowed down that it did it more with the clutch in I have not found a solution for that but as of now its not really the clutch anymore when it does it it just does it clutch in or not. I will keep testing, keep trying to find more to read but yeah I moved away from the Speed Density idea especially now that I am buying a Nitrous kit from CPR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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