82 Cross Fire To Carb Conversion

[Buccaneer]

I have guys that call or come to my shop that have paid to have the whole system rebuilt and up graded and it still has the same problems. It idles weird and has flat spots and runs lean and hot and makes very little power. I am shore it can be made to run well if you have a lot of time and money.

You may be right, people call us with the same issues all the time. This is mainly because they had the work done and did not know how to set it up "properly" afterwards and it still runs badly. If it idles weird, it's because it isn't adjusted correctly or they have a vacuum leak or both. Flat spots and runs lean...really!? That's a simple fix for a CF. I guess if you don't know how to work on a computer controlled motor, then it becomes a hard fix....Hence where "carbs" come into play for those people. BTW, it's not expensive to do the overhaul and set things up correctly. Send them our way and we'll fix it for them the right way.

[Bromley's Corvettes]

I cant send them your way they have already decided they dont want to spend any time or money on CF. Some of them have already paid and wont spend another dime on it. Some of them have talked to you guys and even paid you to rebuild the system and the same problems came back so there burned out on CF.

[LastC3]

Difficult debate at best, especially with guys that have put in so much time and effort into understanding CFI systems ...... At the end of the day, these systems on 82, 83 & 84 Vettes, Cameros and Firebirds are probably one of the most reliable produced by GM ..... with balanced TBs and all associated parts working properly. The most common issues are related to vacuum leaks and/or sensors. The fuel delivery system by itself is really not that complicated ..... however not understanding how critical this is, many simply move on to other options. There have been many re-builds of stock CFI motors where the client has walked away very happy, getting years of pleasure with the all original Crossfire.

As to HP of these engines, the heads and intakes are the main culprits ...... Our first build included new heads, intake and a bit more aggressive cam. This done with no changes to the ECM and the gain was between 40-50 HP. Some of us have now gone beyond those limits with even larger cams, larger TBs and Injectors and tuner capable ECMs, but that was a choice .... all while staying with CFI. Again, there are limits due to TB and Injector size availability, but making more gains while keeping with the unusual CFI look under the hood .... Each to their own .....

Doug ... it is very cool that you're taking care of your customers as you do very successfully .... but from the perspective of CFI enthusists, like Tom & I, its always sad to see a CFI go away ..... nothing personal by any means ..... and its always sad to hear about guys who cannot find the right people to get the job done .....

Good job on the conversion ...... The engine compartment looks great ...... It would be interesting to know what HP gains resulted just from the changes you made .....

[Bromley's Corvettes]

I hear you and I am just doing what my customers want done. They dont want to bother with the CF or they have tried and it did not work out so they give up. I have been able to make CF cars run better in the past. Most of the time it was vacuum leaks or low fuel presser or both. I have put 85 fuel pumps in 82s and fixed leaks and plugs and wires and IGN parts and they run good.

[Desertdawg]

My 82 with over 100k on the clock still dynoed 198 HP and 285 TQ, It never missed a beat and the only breakdown I ever had was a rotted, plugged fuel sock on the factory pump. Heck the head mechanic at CnV told me it was the best running, strongest CFI they ever had when I traded it in. All thanks to Jim and Tom and their knowledge of the crossfire system. I still miss that car today...

[Buccaneer]

Thanks guys for the vote of confidence, Jim and I thank you. Where do I start? First off there can't be very many customers of "ours" in AZ that have come to you because they spent tons of money with us, DCS to fix their CF and it still runs horrible. If they don't know how to setup the system after we do the work to restore their parts, we can't help that and the motor will still run bad, but do offer free advice on what needs to be done for the uneducated in the way of the CF. As a matter of fact, Jim and I used to invite CF owners to a FREE workshop that we held to have their CF fixed for FREE labor, they pay for the right parts and we do all the work and showed them what was needed to make them run correctly. There are a few of them here in ACE as well. We have done a lot of CF cars for various corvette shops in the valley (including CnV when they were in business)and lots of work around the country for other corvette and race shops as well and still do work for several in the valley. Jim and I also have gone a lot of times out of our way to help others for FREE unlike other shops that charge out the ass for work that most of the time was shotty at best and the customer still had a bad running CF and the shop says IT'S JUST A CROSSFIRE PIECE OF SHIT and it will NEVER run any better...which is TOTAL BULLSHIT!! A little trivia fer ya! Yeah, so like Hal said, the CF wasn't a power house motor in a corvette, but I bet you didn't know that the 82 corvette CFI motor rated at 200HP was the highest "base" model HP motor in any corvette since 1972 which it tied the 72 model with 200HP. So why the big deal about a CF motor being so low on HP? WOW! 10 years of low HP base model motors in a corvette, go figure. The biggest reason is that when the CF came out, it was a huge step to fuel injection since the 50s and all the "carb" guys freaked! Add in a computer controlled system which was a second gen ECM controlled corvette and those "carb" guys vapor locked and still do. Another thing going against a CF is the fact that there are too many vacuum lines to go bad and cause a lot of issues, but that goes with the territory in any C3, the headlight system is a huge vacuum leak waiting to happen. I still can't understand how rebuilding a TB and setting the system up properly could possibly be more than converting it to a carb. How much is a new carb, manifold, gaskets and anything else that you tell a customer they need and then add in your labor cost? I'm willing to put my paycheck on it that we can do the same job for much less and make it run just fine the first time. That's my point...If you can't get it to run right just carb it and spend even more money needlessly. On a final CF note, I'll let the cat out of the bag a little. We are engaged with a racing team in Ohio with one of their cars that is going to be a CF car with our manifold, TBs and other things. My first reaction was...Huh, then Why!? The team owner wants to prove that a CF motor can run awesome done right in a racing configuration. Frickin' AWESOME! These guys are real serious and they are #2 in the country in there division. We await their results this year. Here's their current car the will hold the CF motor.

[Bromley's Corvettes]

I hear you with all that. I think some guys just get scared and dont want to risk staying with CF. On cars that are not staying stock its just easier to swap to a carb. The worst thing that can happen to a carb is a stuck float or crap in it. The headlight system can cause problems with carbs too. I have pulled off the main vac line to the headlights and plugged it right in front of customers and the engine all of the sudden runs better lol. They did not believe a vac leak from headlights could make it run so bad. I think the CF system is just more sensitive to leaks. So many things using vac on a vette its only a matter of time be four there is a leak. From what I have seen its usually more then just one thing on a CF that's making it run bad. By the time you rebuild the TBs and new injectors and sensors and gaskets and vac lines and linkage and fuel pump and pick up and screen and filter and gauge and take the time to get in dialed in it adds up to a lot. Thats why they decide to swap to a carb. They are also planing for future they dont want to have to get a custom tune when they change other things on the car. I have talked a few guys into staying with CF. They asked about swapping to carb or a new style F.I system but wanted to keep the car stock. I said you should just work with the CF to get it running better and leave it alone.