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Wanna see what life without health insurance looks like?


Big Poppa
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I'd almost be willing to bet that the amount would be significantly higher (bill wise, not what you are supposed to pay) if you had insurance.

actually its the opposite.

the insurance company says

"we do so much business with you, lower it to 1/3. Or we simply will not pay it and you have to wait 12 months while taking us to court"

Hospitals have massive overhead (lights, people, equipment etc) while Insurance companies have 12 phone operators and an Excel spread sheet as overhead.

Hospitals are at the mercy of the insurance company

I've seen an uninsured person who went into the the emergency room for a broken arm, broken nose, and fractured eye socket (ATV crash). I know if my insurance had been billed it would have been well over $50k. This guy's total bill was under $20k. I've seen other examples where I got a statement of benefits from something our insurance got billed for compared to an uninsured and the uninsured's billed amount was less.
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I hope who ever had to go to the hospital recovers.

It was me. Gallbladder surgery. I was only in for 2 nights, simple procedures. I expected the bill to be in the 20,000 range. This was so out of line it made me laugh. Not laughing a lot now that it's sunk in, but the 73,000 may as well be a million. From my position, they look the same.

just another corvette tax. They must have seen you pull up in a corvette and billed accordingly.

SLAMMER

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Quicksilver98

I hope who ever had to go to the hospital recovers.

It was me. Gallbladder surgery. I was only in for 2 nights, simple procedures. I expected the bill to be in the 20,000 range. This was so out of line it made me laugh. Not laughing a lot now that it's sunk in, but the 73,000 may as well be a million. From my position, they look the same.

Damn!............My Wife just had her gallbladder taken out last fall. It was a two day stay in Hospital but if I remember correctly was "only" 26-28k and her insurance paid all but like 4k. That was about the same time I was in for a week for my small intestine resection. That was a 8day stay at about 85k.....Still paying on my portion. I feel for ya!

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They must have done a hysterectomy @ the same time :lol Seriously though, that is full of SUCK! The important thing is that you're still here to share this craziness w/ us. :thumbs

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Talk to the hospital and explain your situation. The bill will be reduced at the very least 50-60%. Then work out a payment plan or you could wipe your a$$ with the bill as 4 out of 10 patients do and add part of your bill to the next patient. Then, and this is obviously unsolicited advise, prioritize the important things in your life and see where health insurance falls as compared to let's say,... owning a vette.

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well, i HONESTLY was like a month from getting insurance. I just wanted to move in to my new place and make sure my finances were in order, and then purchase it on my own. Well.. too late. I have started the process with the hospital to reduce the bill, I just haven't heard back from them. We will see how this goes.

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Marana Rich

Group Medical Plans negotiate fees with hospitals and state this is what we will pay for this: If you have insurance and hospital accepts you as patient, that is what they will get paid. If you have no insurance, the hospital has that far right column they charge for fees, hoping to get as much as possible. I have never seen a bill where the insurance company paid more than what the original charges were for a person if he had no insurance, usually a LOT less. My own experience is I had appendicitis, went in on Tuesday night, operated on Wednesday morning, and released on Saturday. Bill was almost 45K. I saw all the statements, but the insurance company was billed directly. Their statements to me showed that they paid 15K. That was the allowable fee, and the hospital took it. One other time the bill was 4500 dollars. Insurance paid 1400. That bill seems awfully high for gall bladder surgery. Almost twice what mine was for appendix. Similar operations, procedures. Maybe it's because you are in the big city and I'm out here in the boonies............. Friends in medical-related positions assure me hospitals negotiate and work with people to arrange payment plans. Patience, patience.

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That's a huge bill Chris, the suggestions above are good but you can keep them at bay and save your credit rating by just sending the $100.00 each month. If they deposit the check it is an indication of acceptance of terms by the hospital and they cant screw with your credit file.

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Okay, time to clear up a few misconceptions.

Every hospital has what is called a

“Chargemaster.” This is the standard rate they charge for every supply or service they provide. The itemized bill I asked Chris to provide will allow me to compare the individual item charges he has received to that hospital’s Chargemaster, which is on file at the state health department. The Chargemasters are public record, so I am not doing anything secret. Any of you could go down to the health department and look at it .

In general, hospitals enter into contracts with the various ‘payers’ (insurance companies, Medicare, Medicaid, Tri-Care, etc.). Most of you are probably familiar with the concept of “in network” versus “out of network” coverage. Those contracts determine what the hospital will receive as payment for care provided to a patient with a given insurance. In essence, the hospital agrees to take a smaller payment than their standard rate, but in return they will see more patients, as they are now in that insurance carrier’s network. This is good for the hospital, because the more patient volume a hospital has of patients who are capable of paying for their care, the better equipped the hospital is to deal with all the ‘uncompensated care’ they provide (more on this below).

A patient with insurance coverage that is not contracted to a particular hospital will be charged their standard rate, and in this regard, Chad is correct that negotiation may take place on that bill. Further, in this situation, the hospital may come after the patient for payment of the difference between what was billed and what the insurance company ultimately paid.

Patients without health insurance are charged the standard rates, as reflected in the Chargemaster. Are those rates outrageous? Yes, they are. But, there's more to the picture than is readily apparent.

Every hospital that participates (i.e. contracts) with Medicare and/or Medicaid (and that is virtually all of them) is required to be in compliance with the associated federal regulations. Among those is a regulation that a hospital must at least triage any person that presents to their hospital, regardless of ability to pay. Basically, they can’t turn anyone away. This law was passed to put an end to ‘patient dumping’ which used to occur when hospitals would refuse to receive patients who did not have insurance; the patient would be in an ambulance and the EMT’s weren’t allowed to unload them. Very bad.

Hospital care is expensive. The emergency room is the most expensive place that people seek routine care. However, because hospitals cannot turn them away, the uninsured, the unemployed, the illegal resident, all go to the emergency room for conditions that the average person with insurance would take to their physician, or possibly urgent care. They go to the emergency room, because they can go there and get treated, and not pay for it. The hospitals cannot collect from these folks (can’t get blood out of a turnip, ya know), and they can’t give away free care and stay in business. As Chad mentioned, they have overhead. Lots of it. I won’t even go into the cost of malpractice insurance. Anyway, the hospitals set their rates to attempt to compensate for the expenses they are swallowing in the form of uncompensated care.

In short, those able to pay get stuck footing the bill for those who can’t, or won’t.

It is a huge problem with no easy answers, which is how we ended up with the current federal health care bill, which has become very political.

Politics aside, this is a human issue. Some people work hard and simply can’t afford insurance. Others are basically deadbeats, work as little as possible and wouldn’t pay if they could. It is a fact of human society. The fraction that don't contribute create a burden carried by those who do contribute.

Love it or hate it, the current health care bill is attempting create and require what every functioning insurance pool must have; a large population of people paying into the pool, with only a fraction needing to draw out of it at any given time. This is the same way every type of insurance must work to remain viable.

In order to provide health coverage to everyone, then everyone must, in one way or another, contribute. Whether the current health care bill will accomplish that remains to be seen. I haven’t personally read the 1,800 pages it contains, and my opinions I will not add here.

By the way, I know of three hospitals within the last year alone that went bankrupt and closed.

I agree with donna's statements. as a healthcare practitioner for 40 years I had years where I had a 12 percent bad debt loss plus everyone that goes to a hospital must pay for a medicare patients costs because medicare does not allow the hospital to have a profit just basically cost.
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wickedfastvette

I feel for you buddy! I have had many super high hospital bills and for the most part the hospitals were good about working with me. Donna you are awesome, great of you to step in and help Chris Ollie what about those of us who they won't insure!!!

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I feel for you buddy! I have had many super high hospital bills and for the most part the hospitals were good about working with me.

Donna you are awesome, great of you to step in and help Chris

Ollie what about those of us who they won't insure!!!

^^^this^^^ Not like she can't afford insurance, the SOB's won't do it because if the "pre-existing condition" BS
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I feel for you buddy! I have had many super high hospital bills and for the most part the hospitals were good about working with me.

Donna you are awesome, great of you to step in and help Chris

Ollie what about those of us who they won't insure!!!

^^^this^^^ Not like she can't afford insurance, the SOB's won't do it because if the "pre-existing condition" BS

^^^ This ^^^ is a true statement.

Some folks currently can't get coverage at ANY price due to pre-existing conditions. I work with a guy like this. He is brilliant, experienced and highly educated and could easily quadruple his salary in private sector employment. But, he has a family to support and protect and is uninsurable in private sector. So, he is working for the state for a fraction of what he is worth because our insurance does not have that 'pre-existing' exclusion garbage.

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As someone who does anesthesia for a living, im not shocked.

The only people who are against obama care are those who dont know what its like to get a bill like this.

This doesn't include the other $4,000 in bills I have from the emergency room, and the anesthesiologist etc...

Where do they even come up with these numbers? Do they really think they can send a bill like this to someone and get paid? Ya, I can't afford health insurance, but hey, this? No sweat!!

I may be faking my own death soon....

Posted Image

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Chris, you have a some good back-up with Donna. We feel for you chris. Good luck in getting this resolved. IBTL... :facepalm: Someone had to try to ruin it.

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I feel for you buddy! I have had many super high hospital bills and for the most part the hospitals were good about working with me.

Donna you are awesome, great of you to step in and help Chris

Ollie what about those of us who they won't insure!!!

^^^this^^^ Not like she can't afford insurance, the SOB's won't do it because if the "pre-existing condition" BS

^^^ This ^^^ is a true statement.

Some folks currently can't get coverage at ANY price due to pre-existing conditions. I work with a guy like this. He is brilliant, experienced and highly educated and could easily quadruple his salary in private sector employment. But, he has a family to support and protect and is uninsurable in private sector. So, he is working for the state for a fraction of what he is worth because our insurance does not have that 'pre-existing' exclusion garbage.

Private sector insurance has no pre-existing exclusion in group insurance. I had an employee that no insurance company would even talk to on an individual basis, but was covered on the policy I offered until we were down to the last two employees. New employees with pre-existing conditions were not covered for those conditions only, until they had been in the plan for 2 years. They were covered for everything else.

A 50+ employee plan covered everyone equally and could have starting dates as early as the first day of work.

Lots of plans out there besides government. Probably the biggest difference is that you can be fired a lot easier from private industry than government. COBRA will get you 18 months at the same cost the group plan paid.

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Yep sucks to be self employed when it comes to insurance.

i agree as a self employed person too, but Cherye try again.

I just (like 60 days ago) signged up with Blue Cross Blue sheild and my 'pre existing' condition is not covered but WILl BE be covered in 12 months.

They did not EXCLUDE ME, or BAN ME or SAY ANYTHING BUT.

that is a new feature because of ObamaCare.

they can no longer deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions for ever.

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wickedfastvette

Yep sucks to be self employed when it comes to insurance.

i agree as a self employed person too, but Cherye try again.

I just (like 60 days ago) signged up with Blue Cross Blue sheild and my 'pre existing' condition is not covered but WILl BE be covered in 12 months.

They did not EXCLUDE ME, or BAN ME or SAY ANYTHING BUT.

that is a new feature because of ObamaCare.

they can no longer deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions for ever.

Really? I will try again, we have Blue cross Blue sheild on our kids.

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they can no longer deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions for ever.

I had no idea that applied to mental conditions.
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they can no longer deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions for ever.

I had no idea that applied to mental conditions.

Is being SUPER AWESOME a condition?

Huh.. I did not know that.

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