Bigfoot Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hey at least you went 1st class! Yeah, and I had 3 takeoffs and landings coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastC3 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 From LA ????? hard not to comment on that ...... but I LUV my ACE brothers ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Auto correct must have kicked in there. Badminton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTV8 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Who knew? Fcuk those USBC'ers. It sounds like some a-holes taking something that is supposed to be fun WAY too seriously. Sorry to hear it was a bummer Sean, I figgered you'd drop a 300 on 'em while wearing ACE gear ftw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 From LA ????? hard not to comment on that ...... but I LUV my ACE brothers ...... Not Los Angeles...Louisiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastC3 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 From LA ????? hard not to comment on that ...... but I LUV my ACE brothers ...... Not Los Angeles...Louisiana. keep up Hal ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 not unusual for USBC. It's hard to have fun at those events if you are a serious bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jester Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I have the same outcome in louisiana Shooting columbaire (live pigeons). they can make a pigeon wobble and fly at the same time.. lots of money for a poor out come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 16, 2012 Author Share Posted June 16, 2012 If this were a pro event, I could understand making it so difficult, but this is an amateur event. Hell, now you have me going looking at the pro patterns to see if they are more or less difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 If this were a pro event, I could understand making it so difficult, but this is an amateur event. Hell, now you have me going looking at the pro patterns to see if they are more or less difficult. careful, you're about to learn something... didn't you notice the rooster tail behind your ball? The lane products for pro are very specific. USBC...different agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 careful, you're about to learn something... didn't you notice the rooster tail behind your ball? The lane products for pro are very specific. USBC...different agenda. Ok, you lost me on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P51tj Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 careful, you're about to learn something... didn't you notice the rooster tail behind your ball? The lane products for pro are very specific. USBC...different agenda. Ok, you lost me on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 careful, you're about to learn something... didn't you notice the rooster tail behind your ball? The lane products for pro are very specific. USBC...different agenda. Ok, you lost me on that one. that pretty much explains it...GOOD ONE TIM! next lunch Sean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06_Mir Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Can you explain what you mean by "patterns"? I'm a non-bowler (I think the last game I played I had more drinks than the average number of pins I hit, lol) Regardless, crappy that it sucked and hopefully you can find a better tournament style so you can enjoy the game still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Can you explain what you mean by "patterns"? I'm a non-bowler (I think the last game I played I had more drinks than the average number of pins I hit, lol) Regardless, crappy that it sucked and hopefully you can find a better tournament style so you can enjoy the game still. http://news.pba.com/image.axd?picture=lanegrooming101-thumb.jpg not a major concern if you are just having fun,, but if you reach about a 160 average and want to go higher, you'll need to understand what the alley "protectant" or oil pattern does to your ball, how it moves during play, and how atmosphere temperature and humidity will affect the oil pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Can you explain what you mean by "patterns"? I'm a non-bowler (I think the last game I played I had more drinks than the average number of pins I hit, lol) Regardless, crappy that it sucked and hopefully you can find a better tournament style so you can enjoy the game still. http://news.pba.com/image.axd?picture=lanegrooming101-thumb.jpg not a major concern if you are just having fun,, but if you reach about a 160 average and want to go higher, you'll need to understand what the alley "protectant" or oil pattern does to your ball, how it moves during play, and how atmosphere temperature and humidity will affect the oil pattern. I was just having fun 30 years ago in the mid to hi 180's and never knew about oil patterns. Was I missing a lot, or didn't it make a difference then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Can you explain what you mean by "patterns"? I'm a non-bowler (I think the last game I played I had more drinks than the average number of pins I hit, lol) Regardless, crappy that it sucked and hopefully you can find a better tournament style so you can enjoy the game still. http://news.pba.com/image.axd?picture=lanegrooming101-thumb.jpg not a major concern if you are just having fun,, but if you reach about a 160 average and want to go higher, you'll need to understand what the alley "protectant" or oil pattern does to your ball, how it moves during play, and how atmosphere temperature and humidity will affect the oil pattern. I was just having fun 30 years ago in the mid to hi 180's and never knew about oil patterns. Was I missing a lot, or didn't it make a difference then? That was when they still had real wood lanes, for starters. The oil then was to protect the lacquer or polyurethane finish. For recreational bowlers the lanes were usually "blocked" but it gave bowlers with 'reactive' type balls and strong hooks a huge advantage. The basic insanity principal of the sport still applies - do the same thing over and over and over, you will score high. Now, bowling lanes are.... basically Formica... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Actually Michael, its all about oil ratio from the inside part of the lane to the outside. The volume of oil isn't so important...dry is dry and wet is wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Actually Michael, its all about oil ratio from the inside part of the lane to the outside. The volume of oil isn't so important...dry is dry and wet is wet. I disagree - because if you increase the volume it causes increased movement - true, an area may start dry but ball traffic will move that oil. Also it depends on the type of oil - solvent based oils evaporate and are really sensitive to temperature, but they're cheaper. Newer synthetics don't evaporate, but do eventually break down under use and are more sensitive (viscosity) to humidity and they move more. Now add to that both a long and short pattern - one for each side and you get - the equalizer. Most USBC events will use a short pattern on one side and a long pattern on the other. 32 - 35 feet short, 42 - 44 feet long pattern. These are usually called dual lane conditions. Short pattern starts usually at the 5th board and peaks at about the 8th board, long pattern usually begins about the 10th board and peaks at the 15th board. Your ball spends a lot of time in the "flatest" part of the lane, and that places your positive axis point closer to the pins which translates into a smaller margin for error. You probably had better luck using your plastic or urethane "spare" ball on the short pattern lane. Your "strongest ball" worked better on the long pattern because it forced you to move left - your set down point would be right in the peak oil, that translates into more rev's at release but there is less change in direction at the end which keeps the ball in the pocket. In this case your positive axis point is farther away from the pins which gives you a larger margin for error and the ball releases it's energy over a longer distance. I'm just guessing - I wasn't there, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Actually Michael, its all about oil ratio from the inside part of the lane to the outside. The volume of oil isn't so important...dry is dry and wet is wet. I disagree - because if you increase the volume it causes increased movement - true, an area may start dry but ball traffic will move that oil. Also it depends on the type of oil - solvent based oils evaporate and are really sensitive to temperature, but they're cheaper. Newer synthetics don't evaporate, but do eventually break down under use and are more sensitive (viscosity) to humidity and they move more. Now add to that both a long and short pattern - one for each side and you get - the equalizer. Most USBC events will use a short pattern on one side and a long pattern on the other. 32 - 35 feet short, 42 - 44 feet long pattern. These are usually called dual lane conditions. Short pattern starts usually at the 5th board and peaks at about the 8th board, long pattern usually begins about the 10th board and peaks at the 15th board. Your ball spends a lot of time in the "flatest" part of the lane, and that places your positive axis point closer to the pins which translates into a smaller margin for error. You probably had better luck using your plastic or urethane "spare" ball on the short pattern lane. Your "strongest ball" worked better on the long pattern because it forced you to move left - your set down point would be right in the peak oil, that translates into more rev's at release but there is less change in direction at the end which keeps the ball in the pocket. In this case your positive axis point is farther away from the pins which gives you a larger margin for error and the ball releases it's energy over a longer distance. I'm just guessing - I wasn't there, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn... That ^^ and the previous explanation pretty much convinced me to not take up bowling again. It's been tough enough switching from points, rotors, distributors, and carb jetting, to a digital computerized car for racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 A lot of what you say is true Michael. Although more oil/conditioner means less hook and you almost never see patterns as short as 32-35 feet. This years USBC pattern was 39' and was considered short. Also, the USBC nationals tournament is based on what is called a "sport shot" or "flatter" patterns, not the higher volume inside and lower volume outside. They are "flat" because they use patterns where the ratio of oil from the inside to the outside is nearly the same. This year's had a 2.2 TO 1 ratio (last year was 2.85 to 1). Most typical house shots have ratios of 4 to 1 all the way to about 8 or 10 to 1. These increased ratios create "area" or more room for error. The higher the ratio from inside to out the easier the pattern. The lower the ratio, the more difficult the patterns become. The way this years pattern played, it was like bowling on a PBA Masters or US Open pattern...MUCH MUCH more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 A lot of what you say is true Michael. Although more oil/conditioner means less hook and you almost never see patterns as short as 32-35 feet. This years USBC pattern was 39' and was considered short. Also, the USBC nationals tournament is based on what is called a "sport shot" or "flatter" patterns, not the higher volume inside and lower volume outside. They are "flat" because they use patterns where the ratio of oil from the inside to the outside is nearly the same. This year's had a 2.2 TO 1 ratio (last year was 2.85 to 1). Most typical house shots have ratios of 4 to 1 all the way to about 8 or 10 to 1. These increased ratios create "area" or more room for error. The higher the ratio from inside to out the easier the pattern. The lower the ratio, the more difficult the patterns become. The way this years pattern played, it was like bowling on a PBA Masters or US Open pattern...MUCH MUCH more difficult. I hear ya brutha, but PBA and Open will usually still have an oil line where if you are within 1/2 a board you get a predictable back end. I'm familiar with the sport shot pattern, which is one of the reasons I learned that outside shot on the 3rd board, but if I have to move left which is rare I'm really fooked. (been wanting to try a urethane ball for that inside 6-10 board and a slight inside - outside swing) Sounds like oil was really moving around. You were in LA, so I'm betting it was synthetic oil and the humidity was high. I know if there was a couple of bowlers moving oil from the mid boards outside it played hell with my shot, but most of the time they stayed inside of 8 -10 board. A lot of the time I could send a couple Brooklyn to dry the line I want then move one board left on my stance...it looks sloppy when they cross over, but I don't have to worry about a split or low pin count and then I have set up for a pocket third frame. makes me want to get back in the sport again...we should do another ACE Bowl, Sasquatch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Considering they kept that convention center like an ice box, I don't think weather/humidity were issues. Being a lefty, I was all alone in the oil as well. I was hitting the 8 board +/- a half at the 55' mark and could not get any consistent reaction whatsoever (that was also the area that was supposed to be the scoring area). I watched a video interview from the "designer" of the oil pattern. He talked about bowlers getting together to break down the pattern to open up the lanes. How is that fair? I'm a lefty all alone on that side with no chance to break down the pattern. So in essence he was saying, "Hey lefties, phook you and try again next year." In all my practice here at home (9 games at a time) and during actual competition I saw no break down of the pattern. It's a pattern that lefties are just screwed on. I know the USBC president (nothing to do with the tourney). He's a local bowler, bowled some PBA, regional and Team USA. He is considered one of the best in AZ...his overall score for the tourney was below 1800 for his 9 games. Oh, he's a lefty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F22trainer Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 AH HA - I found your problem! You're standing on the wrong side of the ball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 I never knew you were such a student of the game. Oh, and the whole urethane and/or mildly reactive ball is something I thought I should have had in hind sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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