Chuck Cow Tune?

[mmacfn]

Hey all So i have been reading alot about tunes. This becomes especially important for me since ive drive a standard all my life and my vette is an auto with paddels. The one which i seem to see alot if the Chuck COW tune. Has anyone had any experience with this bad or good? His posts on some websites read like an infomercial and that worries me a little. Also, it aint cheap. You have to buy an autotune device for 299 THEN he sends you a tune in email which you install with it that costs 300. This device supposedly logs info and you send it back to him and he tweaks it for your car. It is an additional 300 for a trans tune as well. So all in all yer looking at a grand to get everything tuned up. Seems spendy... Thoughts?

[ChadC]

while he has a good rep, there are a few "infomercial" things that I too have felt leery Like there was a 'throttle booster' that opened up the throttle plate sooner when pressing the gas pedal. there is a guy here in AZ that you wil hear his name thrown about like a religion called Nick D. Nick d is smart Nick d has been tuning LS engines for a bazillion years Nick d is very protective about his name and reputation. Nick D put out a fantastic quality product. .. ALL HAIL nick D! :-D The most painless process is to call Loud pedal Motorsport and schedule for a Dyno tune. http://www.loud-pedal.com/ 480-589-LOUD My advise is to pay the extra $50 and had a Pre-tune dyno done so you can see the before/after gains.

[Big Poppa]

+1 for Nic D. He does a great job, has a stellar reputation, and will tune your car, in your car, on the road and on a dyno. He makes sure he gets it right. Mail order tunes just can't match up. You can PM him on here (NicD), or call Loud Pedal Motorsports. They can hook you up with him, and the dyno time.

[Eddie44]

The big question that you haven't answered is why doyou want a tune? If your car is bone stock it a waste of $500-$600.

[ChadC]

The big question that you haven't answered is why doyou want a tune? If your car is bone stock it a waste of $500-$600.

I flat out disagree Eddie.

on an Auto a tune will wake up the car a lot

[Grayeagle]

NicD is the best tuning guru available. When I get the chance to delve into my baby and boost the power NicD will be workin with LPM to do it right. There just is no substitute for doing it right the first time -just my 2 copper -Frank (savin for a 427 ..have to ..it's the Corvette paradigm)

[Eddie44]

The big question that you haven't answered is why doyou want a tune? If your car is bone stock it a waste of $500-$600.

I flat out disagree Eddie.

on an Auto a tune will wake up the car a lot

I'd love to see the difference. Why don't you have it done mmacfn and report back.

I know on the 2012's GM has changed the reaction times on the paddle shifters. You can have a dealer reflash and maintain your warranty a lot cheaper than Nic will do it and void your warranty. Mikey had it done on his new 2011 GS and said it made a lot of difference.

[Guest Sidewinder]

DO NOT GET A COW TUNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I drove a C6 with this shitty tune on it. The line pressure was turned up so high I thought the trans was gunna fall out when it downshifted. STAY AWAY!! NicD for the win. But it is your car, you can piss in the radiator if ya want.

[Jon]

I would never use a Chuck COW tune. He is way to infomercial. If you are under warranty and don't care about loosing your powertrain warranty, then get a NicD tune. GM's run a bit fat on AFR and you will gain a bit by leaning it out to 12.7-12.8 at wide open throttle. On an automatic car, tuning the transmission will net you a huge difference in how the car feels. http://www.gonicd.com/ is Nic's website with his email address. Email is the easiest way to get in touch with him. I think a full dyno tune with trans will run you around $500-$600 with Nic. With the weather being hotter, it's actually a good time to tune. That way you know you won't have any issues with the hotter temps. Every car Nic has tuned of mine has performed flawlessly.

[corvettech]

I,ve met nick once and from a tech's perspective i was very impressed. not like compared to other techs but "why is this guy not working for nasa impressed" i recomend him

[Steve@LPM]

Like everyone has stated, Nic is the guy. Give us a call at the shop and I can work you into the schedule.

[Big Poppa]

The big question that you haven't answered is why doyou want a tune? If your car is bone stock it a waste of $500-$600.

I flat out disagree Eddie.

on an Auto a tune will wake up the car a lot

+1. Unless you're 100 years old and drive a Buick. Then, why bother? The only performance you're interested in at that point is the gripper seal strip on your diaper.

[mmacfn]

Nice! Ok So one question. If one gets an tune is there a way to flash it back to factory to maintain the warranty then flash it back after any warranty work? That is one of the things COW offers. Ill likely call nik in the next few weeks.

[Two Fangs]

If you buy HP Tuners or EFI Live, then Nic can tune it using your software and hardware, and you can flash it back to stock if you need to.

[ChadC]

Nice!

Ok

So one question. If one gets an tune is there a way to flash it back to factory to maintain the warranty then flash it back after any warranty work? That is one of the things COW offers.

Ill likely call nik in the next few weeks.

Two snails is correct but there is 2 snags

A nick is guarded with his tunes.

Not because of him but here is a senairo

Nick tunes a car. Works great!

Customer/other shop decides to "get a little more" Engine blows!

The customer ALWAYS remembers. "nick tuned my car and it blew the engine"

They tell 10 possible customers

It's a loose loose for nick

The other rub is the moral question.

In MY BOOK. If you change the tune, then swap back for a warranty clam is stealing/ insurance fraud .

But I may not be in the majority.

[Eddie44]

It is my understanding that a dealer can tell how many times it's been flashed and if their computer shows none but your car show 2or3 then guess who's paying for the repair. Hint...it won't be GM!

[Two Fangs]

I absolutely agree with Chad, that it is a moral question if you make risky modifications to the car via a tune, and the car exhibits problems, then flashing it back to stock to get GM (and in essence, all of us) to pay for the bill. But, it would also be uncool to take the car in for the AC not working, get a reflash as part of the fix, and loose all of Nic's work. Eddie is also correct in that suspect powertrain damage can cause the dealer to see if the car has a history of stored tunes with CVNs (Calibration verification Numbers) that do not match up with stock GM tunes. While they cannot tell the exact number of times the car has been flashed, they can tell if it has been diddled with. There are specific tuning devices out there that can flash back the stock CVN, some research will help you locate those.

[Jester]

I have to agree! NicD and LPM thats the ticket

[Buccaneer]

It's my understanding that unless the manufacturer of the vehicle can prove that what you have changed in respect to a tune change/product has damaged the vehicle you do not automatically void your warranty unless it is specifically written that way. Found this article which talks about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I'm not saying it's OK to do whatever you want, just providing some info on the subject. Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact You'll often hear this myth regarding hacking or modding your car: it automatically cancels your warranty. Don't believe it as gospel. Sure, changing the windshield wiper blades can't cause the transmission to break, but your warranty won't allow you to do whatever you want to your car. Warranty requirements When it comes to new car warranties, automotive owners and enthusiasts have a very important lobbying body on their side, namely SEMA (the Specialty Equipment Market Association). SEMA represents the aftermarket manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, and distributors in North America. Because this association of aftermarket parts suppliers has a vested interest in the continued sale of aftermarket parts, it has helped to keep new car manufacturers in check by successfully lobbying for legislation that prevents new car dealership service providers from denying warranty coverage, for example in a seized motor, because you chose to use those snazzy aftermarket carbon fiber windshield wipers instead of the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts sold through their parts/service departments. Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act The relevant legislation here, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975, protects consumers from being wrongfully denied warranty coverage by new car dealers. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision ©: No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if — (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefore. Under this federal statute, a manufacturer who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle is prohibited from requiring you to use a service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer. Further, under the act, aftermarket equipment that improves performance does not automatically void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly states the addition of aftermarket equipment automatically voids your vehicle's warranty, or if it can be proven that the aftermarket device is the direct cause of the failure. Specifically, the rules and regulations adopted by the FTC to govern the interpretation and enforcement of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act are set forth in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 16 - Commercial Practices, Chapter I - Federal Trade Commission, Subchapter G - Rules, Regulations, Statements and Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, Part 700 - Interpretations under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Contained within these rules and regulations is Section 700.10, which states: No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102© ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused. Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law. That being said, if you choose to modify your car, and suddenly the fancy new electronic control boxes that you added to your car make it run rough, not start when cold, or buck like a bronco, the dealer can and will charge a diagnostic fee to find out what is wrong with your car. If it turns out that your modifications are the cause of the problem, the dealer has every right not only to charge you for the diagnosis and repair, but to also void the portion of the warranty that has been compromised by the use of those aftermarket parts. Likewise, a dealer may refuse to service your car if it is adorned with aftermarket parts to the extent that its technicians cannot reasonably be expected to diagnose what is wrong with your car. As an example, all cars manufactured after 1994 are equipped with OBDII (On Board Diagnostics II) ports that dealers use to read engine diagnostic codes for everything from an engine vacuum leak to a malfunctioning emissions system. If your chosen modification has compromised the dealer service center's ability to scan for these codes (aftermarket ECUs generally do not support OBDII), then there is a strong probability that the dealer service center will Deny warranty coverage Refuse to service the car Note with your factory field representative for your region/district that your car has been "modified" Your car's manufacturer notes are your car's "permanent record." Above all else, avoid compromising these notes. This is nearly always connected with your vehicles' VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) and will Ensure that your car will not have its warranty honored at any dealer service center in your area. Dramatically reduce the resale and/or trade-in value of your car. Event participation Some recent controversy surrounds car manufacturers' monitoring of SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) and NHRA (National Hot Rod Association) events and noting license plates and VINs as a justification for denying warranty coverage and either voiding out the warranty, or placing it on "restricted" status. The legality of these tactics by automobile manufacturers, in particular where the car is marketed with SCCA membership or literature or advertised in race-modified form, is questionable. To protect yourself, be aware of this trend and take the appropriate precautions in listing critical identifying information when participating in regional autocrosses, tracks days, and drag races. If you believe that your warranty has been wrongly canceled or placed on restriction either because of modifications made to your car, or because of your membership in, affiliation with, or participating in sanctioned club events or gatherings, consult with an attorney and use SEMA as a resource to fight the denial of coverage. When it comes to legality and warranty concerns, neither proceed based solely on slick advertising and marketing by parts manufacturers and resellers, nor allow yourself to be cowed into paranoia. Information is power, and knowing your rights and obligations is the foundation to any thoughtfully modified car.

[HOXXOH]

Oh Crap! I wrote a long piece about Chuck's tune and then must have hit the wrong button and it vanished. Short Version: DO NOT EVER USE A TUNE FROM CHUCK EVEN IF HE PAYS YOU TO TAKE IT. Now mods in relation to warranty is a whole nuther matter. Just because you have brand X floor mats and brand Y mufflers, it doesn't kill the entire car's warranty. A tune that changes A/F for the engine will cause you to lose the engine part of the warranty, but will not affect the radio or wheel bearings. Most dealers will still cover items that are not directly affected by a tune. If your water pump dies, they understand that it wasn't caused by the tune or the headers. However, if you suck a valve, break rods and pistons, because some dickhead (Chuck) changed your rev limiter to the Z06 specs (550 rpm higher), GM is not responsible. Having a tune and swapping it back to stock after a problem arises is blatant fraud. I suspect 99% of the tuned cars will never have major issues. Most never get driven hard enough to cause problems if left stock either. With over 300 burnouts followed by WOT passes down the track and 99K miles on the highways, (lots of WOT there too) my A6 trans is still alive. I got my first tune Mar '08, then Chuckie's in Nov '08, then dumped most of it and re-tuned in Apr '09, reset again in Nov '09, and then tweaked by me many times since. The A6 is a good tranny, but better when tuned.

[Guest Sidewinder]

Tom, Can you give us the cliff notes of the post that got dumped?

[ChadC]

Agreed. And Tom the Moss act is nice. But good luck spending the millions of dollars fighting a multi billion dollar company. Can you find me a private citizen that has won against GM in the past 10 years?

[HOXXOH]

Tom,

Can you give us the cliff notes of the post that got dumped?

I think the short version tells the story well enough.

Even shorter version: CoW tune? Just say NO.

Shortest version: CoW

[Two Fangs]

Agreed.

And Tom the Moss act is nice.

But good luck spending the millions of dollars fighting a multi billion dollar company.

Can you find me a private citizen that has won against GM in the past 10 years?

Chad is correct here. An individual cannot feasibly go up against a corporate powerhouse like GM and stand a chance. Typically, the individual has to rely on the company that made the product to stand behind it and fight.

Not a plug, or an endorsement, but the only manufacturer I know that stands behind their customers and will fight for them under the Magnuson-Moss Act is K&N. They have a wall in their corporate office pinned with uncashed checks from dealers and manufacturers to reimburse them after K&N paid for their customers cars to be fixed while still under manufacturer warranty. It is like a trophy wall.

Dealer says K&N caused the problem and will not repair under warranty. Pissed customer calls K&N, K&N pays to have the car fixed. K&N goes after dealer and manufacturer under Magnuson-Moss and wins. K&N takes the check, and pins it to the wall, uncashed.

[HOXXOH]

Agreed.

And Tom the Moss act is nice.

But good luck spending the millions of dollars fighting a multi billion dollar company.

Can you find me a private citizen that has won against GM in the past 10 years?

Chad is correct here. An individual cannot feasibly go up against a corporate powerhouse like GM and stand a chance. Typically, the individual has to rely on the company that made the product to stand behind it and fight.

Not a plug, or an endorsement, but the only manufacturer I know that stands behind their customers and will fight for them under the Magnuson-Moss Act is K&N. They have a wall in their corporate office pinned with uncashed checks from dealers and manufacturers to reimburse them after K&N paid for their customers cars to be fixed while still under manufacturer warranty. It is like a trophy wall.

Dealer says K&N caused the problem and will not repair under warranty. Pissed customer calls K&N, K&N pays to have the car fixed. K&N goes after dealer and manufacturer under Magnuson-Moss and wins. K&N takes the check, and pins it to the wall, uncashed.

The money K&N spends, most likely comes out of their huge advertising budget. Uncashed checks are simply an indication of their ability to thumb their nose at ignorant dealers who would rather pay a small amount than pay a lawyer to contest what may go against them anyway. It's just another case of who has the most money vs. what's right.