FNBADAZ06 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Ported throttle bodies........ Unless there's significant turbulence induced by the throttle blade or machining at the throat of the throttle body opening, I'm having a hard time understanding where the extra RWHP is coming from. I could understand "crisper" throttle response, but crisper throttle doesn't translate to more RWHP. Unless the throttle body opening is increased (with an appropriate increase in size to the throttle blade), or you somehow create higher velocity ...where's this extra 4-6 RWHP people claim for this mod, coming from ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 If you find out, let me know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Me too. If you add a Turbonator to a ported throttle body, do you add the hp increases together, or multiply them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 4-6 horsepower is probably within the standard deviation of error and can easily be due to environmental factors, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final Effort Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 It's very simple to understand. 1st take your unmodified induction system to Denver, CO put car on Dyno and find the max RWHP. Now Port the throttle body opening and take the car to say LA Calif. put on Dyno and run now see how much more RWHP you have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 4-6 horsepower is probably within the standard deviation of error and can easily be due to environmental factors, no? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 It's very simple to understand. 1st take your unmodified induction system to Denver, CO put car on Dyno and find the max RWHP. Now Port the throttle body opening and take the car to say LA Calif. put on Dyno and run now see how much more RWHP you have now. Excellent......that makes the most sense I was almost resigned to Papa's explanation of the Turbonator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z06_Mir Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 It depends on the car really. An LS1 TB is going to pick up more power ported than an LS7 will because the LS1 tapers down where the blade is, if that makes sense. The LS7 isn't really tapered that much and porting it will really only increase throttle response... maybe 1 or 2 rwhp. Bijan has ported many many LS1/LS2 and other types of TBs and the LS1's show 7whp or more increase on a dyno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I did a back to back test at the track. Two passes with the stock TB, a 10 minute swap, and two more passes with a Vmax ported TB. I got very minimal gains overall. It may have been better if I launched from idle instead of 11-1200 RPM, but I didn't test that aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTV8 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 I did a back to back test at the track. Two passes with the stock TB, a 10 minute swap, and two more passes with a Vmax ported TB. I got very minimal gains overall. It may have been better if I launched from idle instead of 11-1200 RPM, but I didn't test that aspect. So, in your best estimate you DID pickup some "minimal" RWHP gains ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 It depends on the car really. An LS1 TB is going to pick up more power ported than an LS7 will because the LS1 tapers down where the blade is, if that makes sense. The LS7 isn't really tapered that much and porting it will really only increase throttle response... maybe 1 or 2 rwhp. Bijan has ported many many LS1/LS2 and other types of TBs and the LS1's show 7whp or more increase on a dyno. Interesting. I can understand the throttle response aspect, but without increasing the bore of the throttle body mouth to increase the volume of air coming in...where is the additional air coming from to create the extra horsepower ? Are you saying that the diameter of the throttlebody opening gets smaller after the throttle blade in LS1/LS2 motors ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 It's simple, more in equals more out. The more money you dump into your ride, the more power you get out... That or: Wish in one hand and shit in the other, now see which one will get you farther... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Feed your lawn. Feed it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 This is a hardcore technical discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Beyond a shadow of a doubt, this is hardcore. Tech? Not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Essentially, there was (and still is) much thought and banter around the removal and smoothing of the machined ridge close to the throttle plate in a cast throttle body allowing for better ingress of air into the intake. This has been something that has been argued and debated since the 5.0 Mustang first came out. The Honda stooges took it new heights. Gains are frequently arguable, and always nominal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I did a back to back test at the track. Two passes with the stock TB, a 10 minute swap, and two more passes with a Vmax ported TB. I got very minimal gains overall. It may have been better if I launched from idle instead of 11-1200 RPM, but I didn't test that aspect. So, in your best estimate you DID pickup some "minimal" RWHP gains ? I posted the exact results on CF sometime in the Spring of 2009. Most of my documentation is in storage until I move again. For the money, it's not worth it to me with an A6. If I had a manual, it'd be more advantageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayeagle Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Coupla things I learned when I useda play with 'arrow-dah-nammiks' and 'venturi effects' .. ..if you increase the bore behind the venturi (in Holly carbs, this is swappin an 850 baseplate under a 660 center squirter, f'rinstance) ..you get a stronger vacuum signal to the base of the venturi (this does all kinda good things, especially if yer runnin a 332 duration cam, f'rinstance) If you smooth the inlet to the venturi it doesn't really accomplish much until you get into higher flow, then it's exponential ..very worth doin for a tunnel ram motor f'rinstance.. ..not so much for a motor that won't see 4k rpm+ very often. So . . I took a pair of Holly 660 center squirters, put 850 baseplates on em, knife edged the blades, smoothed the entry areas, ran velocity stacks and a forward facing boat scoop that rammed air into them. Just a note: goin to the forward facing boat scoop alone required 2 jet size increases over open velocity stacks and I dropped 2 tenths in ET and picked up 3mph throught the lights. Nothin beats real world track testin As for porting a throttle body ..sure it looks cool (??) .. but .. for the money there are better performance areas to improve. (ie: bank it an wait till you have enough for a ProCharger!) -Frank aka GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 I did a back to back test at the track. Two passes with the stock TB, a 10 minute swap, and two more passes with a Vmax ported TB. I got very minimal gains overall. It may have been better if I launched from idle instead of 11-1200 RPM, but I didn't test that aspect. So, in your best estimate you DID pickup some "minimal" RWHP gains ? I posted the exact results on CF sometime in the Spring of 2009. Most of my documentation is in storage until I move again. For the money, it's not worth it to me with an A6. If I had a manual, it'd be more advantageous. I found your post under the VMax thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philv Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 as far as I understand it, a ported TB on a stock motor will only increase throttle response. from what I have taken is a ported TB only shines if you have a ported intake and big chamber heads. the more in, the more out, = more hp. correct? so you would notice an increase of hp on a modified engine fromstock tb to ported. its also the same for tb spacers, on stock you can notice a faster throttle response, but not hp persay. 4-6hp is not noticeble enough to spend a couple hundred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 NicD told me it wasn't worth it on the newer motors for NA or being force fed through the throttlebody. Maybe the LS1 like Mir is saying, but not so much on the new stuff. Kurt Urban took a 78mm throttlebody to over 1000hp forcing air through it. Turbo setup if I remember right. However, if you are talking about feeding a TVS 1900/2300 Eaton or Whipple 2.9/4.0 type blower, then a physically bigger throttlebody is better at the higher/extreme hp levels some of those guys like to push with those blowers. Since you have to have air being "sucked" into the blower first before it's compressed/shoved into the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 You are exactly right, Jon. The only instances where I have seen a big bore throttle body make impressive gains was when it was placed in front of a PD supercharger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 You are exactly right, Jon. The only instances where I have seen a big bore throttle body make impressive gains was when it was placed in front of a PD supercharger. You need to explain "impressive" in more scientific terms. The original question dealt with 4-6 HP, which may sound impressive on a 50 HP engine, but not on a 500 HP motor, depending on the definition. I usually avoid dyno HP as a criteria to gauge performance, because I use my car to move me from one place to another, not merely to spin a large drum. However, dyno HP is a better measurement than SOTP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Here's my TB experience. Maybe you can rank it in degrees of impressiveness. 1/4 mile test results. 2 passes for baseline - 11.92 @ 121.24 & 11.96 @ 121.17 2 passes after install - 11.90 @ 121.18 & 11.90 @ 121.05 The 60' times dropped from 1.97 & 1.97 to 1.95 & 1.94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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