Patrick Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Okay, I'm planning out my build now. It's going to be big. Simply 427, a lot of turbo boost, and big HP. I've heard of E85 possibly being beneficial for boosted applications. I'm looking for advice, experiences, and opinions on running E85 from people that actually run it. I've looked across the internet on "car" forums about pros/cons of E85. Most start out on this subject and there are arguements about the pros/cons then very shortly they turn into arguements about global warming, tree huggers and so on. None get any further into the performance aspect of running it. If you run E85 or you are a chemical engineer or have some sort of experience with E85 from a performance aspect, I would really love to hear from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 The pros are that it has a very high Anti Knock Index (AKI), allowing for use in high BMEP applications without the risk of detonation. Additionally, E85 is much more cost effective when compared to unleaded race fuel, at least as long as the government subsidies hold out. The cons are that it has a much lower stoichiometry point than gasoline, requiring more fuel per pound of air, ergo, mileage suffers greatly with the use of E85. Typically, much larger injectors are required to be used to keep up with engine fueling demands. Also, limited E85 fueling stations have steered people away from E85 that like to cruise long distances, as fueling opportunities can be limited (unless you live in Nebraska). If you want to know how it works (i.e. how you can use your stock O2 sensors with a fuel that requires a much richer mixture, etc.) let me know and I will provide greater detail. Sometimes I wish we had a "Hardcore Tech" section. Cheers, Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'm running it, above is pretty accurate esp gas mileage. There is also the cooling characteristics and cleaning properties. I also run more timing as well. To run E85 all I did was swap my injectors over and tune. Nothing else was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phxcobra Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Running it in my Z. Bigger injectors are necessary. Any more power and will probably need to address pumps. Much cheaper than race fuel. Good fuel for high compression of FI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccaneer Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 If you run E85 or you are a chemical engineer or have some sort of experience with E85 from a performance aspect, I would really love to hear from you. I'm not a chemical engineer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express. I've run E85, but only in my truck and really didn't see much of a performance gain which is supposed to be a 20HP gain, but it is a lot cheaper than regular gas. There isn't that many E85 stations in Phoenix area is there? I had to go to east mesa to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 If you run E85 or you are a chemical engineer or have some sort of experience with E85 from a performance aspect, I would really love to hear from you. I'm not a chemical engineer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express. I've run E85, but only in my truck and really didn't see much of a performance gain which is supposed to be a 20HP gain, but it is a lot cheaper than regular gas. There isn't that many E85 stations in Phoenix area is there? I had to go to east mesa to find it. Several E85 stations on the NW Valley. E85 burns much cooler...I've heard claims of 20+ degree ECT drops. With my car (stock tune), it all about the dreaded knock retard and horsepower preservation. With a tune, I've seen claims of roughly 10-20 RWHP on stock cars, but E85 is wonderful when the compression goes up to 12:1 and higher When I finally get to tuning the car, it's going on E85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buccaneer Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 If you run E85 or you are a chemical engineer or have some sort of experience with E85 from a performance aspect, I would really love to hear from you. I'm not a chemical engineer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express. I've run E85, but only in my truck and really didn't see much of a performance gain which is supposed to be a 20HP gain, but it is a lot cheaper than regular gas. There isn't that many E85 stations in Phoenix area is there? I had to go to east mesa to find it. Several E85 stations on the NW Valley. E85 burns much cooler...I've heard claims of 20+ degree ECT drops. With my car (stock tune), it all about the dreaded knock retard and horsepower preservation. With a tune, I've seen claims of roughly 10-20 RWHP on stock cars, but E85 is wonderful when the compression goes up to 12:1 and higher When I finally get to tuning the car, it's going on E85. Another issue I guess after reading my owners manual is that you are not supposed to mix regular gas and E85 back and forth for some reason. You either run E85 or regular, not sure why though at this time. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 If you run E85 or you are a chemical engineer or have some sort of experience with E85 from a performance aspect, I would really love to hear from you. I'm not a chemical engineer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express. I've run E85, but only in my truck and really didn't see much of a performance gain which is supposed to be a 20HP gain, but it is a lot cheaper than regular gas. There isn't that many E85 stations in Phoenix area is there? I had to go to east mesa to find it. Several E85 stations on the NW Valley. E85 burns much cooler...I've heard claims of 20+ degree ECT drops. With my car (stock tune), it all about the dreaded knock retard and horsepower preservation. With a tune, I've seen claims of roughly 10-20 RWHP on stock cars, but E85 is wonderful when the compression goes up to 12:1 and higher When I finally get to tuning the car, it's going on E85. Another issue I guess after reading my owners manual is that you are not supposed to mix regular gas and E85 back and forth for some reason. You either run E85 or regular, not sure why though at this time. Anyone? None of the Vette's are Flexfuel capable and stoic for E85 is way different than standard pump gas so your A/F will be off.....plus, you need the fuel flow to handle the approximately 30% greater fuel flow you'll need at WOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Yeah the big downsides are availability and the approx 30-35% mileage drop. You will need larger injectors but with a 427 you would be looking for bigger ones anyways and you will want the larger pump to go along with that. Otherwise the benefits are numerous since it's near 105 octane and runs cooler which is really nice for road race guys fighting temps. If you are for sure on running E85 I would set it up to be a higher compression motor to really take advantage of the octane and alcohol benefit and would probably shoot for around 12:1 just so you aren't totally screwed if you have to use pump gas at some point. That's all I run in my GTO and Camaro and since they are forced induction it just loves it but I have done many a naturally aspirated E85 tune and they have all picked up and run better. Heck the last one was a black C5 Z06 that was literally huge cam only with exhaust and it laid down ~465 rwhp in the middle of the summer since it allows you to not have to be as aggressive on the air temp timing reduction with it's octane rating. It didn't even have a FAST intake or anything like that with stock heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve@LPM Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think just about everything has been covered. Ive heard its a good idea to switch over to teflon fuel lines to prevent corrosion but have also seen people running standard braided rubber lines for a few years with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Also if you have a smart phone there is an app called Drive Alternatives that lists location and price of Biodiesel and E85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 The pros are that it has a very high Anti Knock Index (AKI), allowing for use in high BMEP applications without the risk of detonation. Additionally, E85 is much more cost effective when compared to unleaded race fuel, at least as long as the government subsidies hold out. The cons are that it has a much lower stoichiometry point than gasoline, requiring more fuel per pound of air, ergo, mileage suffers greatly with the use of E85. Typically, much larger injectors are required to be used to keep up with engine fueling demands. Also, limited E85 fueling stations have steered people away from E85 that like to cruise long distances, as fueling opportunities can be limited (unless you live in Nebraska). If you want to know how it works (i.e. how you can use your stock O2 sensors with a fuel that requires a much richer mixture, etc.) let me know and I will provide greater detail. Sometimes I wish we had a "Hardcore Tech" section. Cheers, Parker No need to hold back on greater detail just because there's not a dedicated "hardcore tech" section. If you're willing to write and post something for one guy, why not share your knowledge with all who care to read it right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 No need to hold back on greater detail just because there's not a dedicated "hardcore tech" section. If you're willing to write and post something for one guy, why not share your knowledge with all who care to read it right here. I usually don't because I don't want to go shooting way over someone's head. Many moons ago, I was explaining something to someone and ended up talking about laminar airflow. I might was well have been speaking Aramaic. Needless t say, the point wasn't onderstood or made and, actually, probably was way beyond what he intended when he posed the question. Thus, I try to stay relatively simple, wheras if there were such a section with this question posed, I could go deep. Cheers, Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Just share the info with me, Parker. HOXXOH don't need to know nuthin' 'bout it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I still remember my Fluid Dynamics course so laminar away. I am a little rusty on Thermodynamics, but I remember the basics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I still remember my Fluid Dynamics course so laminar away. I am a little rusty on Thermodynamics, but I remember the basics... How much elevation would you need to fire a .40 hollow point to strike a perp directly in the forehead from 50 yards away while said perp was in his white C5 with blacked out tail lights trying to make a run for it ? Oh wait, that's not fluid dynamics...damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 But, that is a fluidly dynamic situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I still remember my Fluid Dynamics course so laminar away. I am a little rusty on Thermodynamics, but I remember the basics... How much elevation would you need to fire a .40 hollow point to strike a perp directly in the forehead from 50 yards away while said perp was in his white C5 with blacked out tail lights trying to make a run for it ? Oh wait, that's not fluid dynamics...damn. If the perp was running away, you couldn't hit his forehead anyway. And I have no intention (at this time) of running E85, but you're still going to need the cam installed to stay up with me this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FNBADAZ06 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I still remember my Fluid Dynamics course so laminar away. I am a little rusty on Thermodynamics, but I remember the basics... How much elevation would you need to fire a .40 hollow point to strike a perp directly in the forehead from 50 yards away while said perp was in his white C5 with blacked out tail lights trying to make a run for it ? Oh wait, that's not fluid dynamics...damn. If the perp was running away, you couldn't hit his forehead anyway. And I have no intention (at this time) of running E85, but you're still going to need the cam installed to stay up with me this year. He's looking back flippin' Ted the bird Hhhhmmm.......maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I still remember my Fluid Dynamics course so laminar away. I am a little rusty on Thermodynamics, but I remember the basics... That reminds me to contact Rusty Brown about the coating used on the '87 12-meter America's Cup boat, "Stars & Stripes". The 4-0 win was attributed to the hull skin that reduced the turbulent water friction at higher speeds. I don't think anyone ever applied that technology to an auto body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve@LPM Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I left the bathroom from doing some "fluid dynamics" myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I left the bathroom from doing some "fluid dynamics" myself. Consider adding some high fiber pop tarts to your diet. Should help out with the fluid movements. *end hijack* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Thank you for the input everyone. I had heard about the cooler temps and higher octane, just wanted to hear from someone who "actually" runs it and sees those first hand. Steve brought it up, I've heard some horror stories about it being corrosive to the fuel system. There was also talk of it being very corrosive when it comes into contact with aluminum. These are of course peoples accounts from other forums but, these are areas that I am most concerned with. Has anyone had any problems related to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Thank you for the input everyone. I had heard about the cooler temps and higher octane, just wanted to hear from someone who "actually" runs it and sees those first hand. Steve brought it up, I've heard some horror stories about it being corrosive to the fuel system. There was also talk of it being very corrosive when it comes into contact with aluminum. These are of course peoples accounts from other forums but, these are areas that I am most concerned with. Has anyone had any problems related to this? I've been running it in my Camaro for 3 years now and tuning for it longer than that on others cars and there has never been a corrosive issue... even with an aluminum gas tank and rubber lines. Now obviously when it's time to make some changes on the Camaro I will run teflon fuel lines just to be on the safe side and coat the inside of an aluminum tank but it hasn't caused any problems yet for myself and many others. On my GTO I used teflon lines, etc since I just did that about 6 months ago. Just make sure your fuel system is not vented to atmosphere and still has a good evap system in place and it helps to keep out moisture. Otherwise just make sure you don't let it sit for months and you won't have any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phxcobra Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Just to note some stations that have E85: Valero on Scottsdale and Mckellips Valero on Chandler and 44th Shell at Kyrene and Warner ( I think that's where I saw it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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