XTREMEly Disappointed! (REALLY LONG)!

[Guest Greg_AZ]

Some may recall I posted my experience getting the tires on my '06 C6 swapped over to a set of iForged rims about a month ago http://arizonavette.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1505 . I had it done at Xtreme and they did a great job.

However that same evening my left front TPMS sensor went out. No problem I thought, I'll just take it back to Xtreme and have them try to reprogram it. The next day, Saturday, I show up at the shop and wait. And wait. Then wait some more . Huh. Apparently they're closed on Saturday, contrary to what their website, and the sign on their door said. As I was leaving one of the salesmen showed up, with one of the techs. I explain my problem, they say they're closed, but will try to reprogram the sensor anyway. Tech gets a programming tool and proceeds to try and program the TPMS. He's trying to put the car in "learn" mode by alternately pushing the lock/unlock buttons on the fob. I ask him, "Uhhhhh..dude.....this is a C6. Don't you have to hold both buttons down until the horn honks to get it in learn mode?" Right . After fiddling with it for a few minutes he declares his tool can't communicate with the sensor. Something about custom wheels, sensor's too deep in the wheel, etc., etc. Salesman says I'd have to come back when they're open to get it fixed. Ok, no problem, at least the car's driveable, just can't put it in competition mode due to the bad sensor :angry .

I have a busy schedule so was not able to get the car back to the shop until this past Monday. In the meantime, I ordered a new sensor online, just in case the existing one was fried, I didn't want to have to wait for them to order a new one .

So, I show up Monday morning, they pull the car in right away. After about an hour they call me to the back. The tech has the tire on the machine and shows me where he accidentaly put a 2 inch hole in the tire trying to get it dismounted :angry ! Crap. Now, I'm a calm and patient dude, and I understand that sometimes shit happens. Xtreme is on the phone right away trying to track down a new tire. Turns out no one in PHO has a 245-40zr18 F1 Supercar EMT in stock! They have to order one from Louisiana, and it's not going to get here until Wednesday! In the meantime, they try 4 different combinations of rims/tires they have at the shop, just to get me back on the road. After another 2.5 hours, they give up. None work. Darrell gives me a ride back to my house in Chandler.

As a sidenote, I called 3 different Chevy dealers. Each one said they didn't have the tire at the dealership, but could have it by the next day. They use a wholesale tire distributor, Tire Partners, in Phoenix, who stocks these tires. Hmmm.

Well, the new tire showed up today. They got it mounted and balanced. When I got there to pick the car up they tell me they have to go get another valve stem, because the one that was on the rim was hitting the brake calipers. WTF??? I drove around for almost a month and the stem never touched the caliper. It was close, and I had to take the valvestem cap off, but they didn't touch. They put the new sensor in, and programmed it. However they couldn't get the other 3 sensors programmed; same problem as before, custom wheels, etc. etc. etc. They say "here's your car, it's driveable, but we have to take the other three tires off the rims to program the other threee sensors." It's 5 o'clock and they're not doing it today. . They suggested going to a Chevy dealer, "because they have a stronger tool that might be able to trigger the sensor." Whatever.

So, I came to Xtreme 3 days ago with one sensor bad. I leave today with a new tire and 3 sensors that aren't reading. F@*k. But wait, it gets BETTER!!

As I'm driving home I'm watching the tire pressure on the one working sensor. It's dropping slowly. Just as I get on the 101 DIC says "Left front tire flat, max speed 55mph, etc." Now I'm getting pissed :angry :angry . Pull over, on the 101 at 5:30 pm to look at the tire. Bead's still on, looks safe to drive. Limp off the freeway and take the side streets back to Chandler. Try to add air at a gas station, but it comes right back out the valve. Fuck. They didn't even tighten down the valve core!!! Went to pep boys got a tool and tightened it. It now seems to be holding air. We'll see in the a.m. While looking at the tire I also noticed they put a 1.5 inch scratch across the chrome section of the rim!!! Aaaaarrhhhhggggg!!!! :angry . Looks too deep to buff out, we'll have to see.

At this point I'm cutting my losses. I don't have the time, patience, or $$ to risk having them try to fix the other 3 sensors. If I can't borrow a Bartec from somewhere I'll have to bite the bullett and go to the dealer.

The reason I'm posting this is hopefully someone contemplating changing rims on their car reads this and goes elsewhere. Xtreme tried their best, but this job was simply too much for them. Just way above their heads. They are not equipped to program TPMS in custom rims. Their techs (or at least the kid that worked on my tire) are not trained to remove EMT's and don't take enough care to not put scratches in the rims.

[Eddie44]

I have a saying "it's not the problem, it's how they handle the problems". You obviously f'd up on both counts Chad! I think we all need to hear Chad's side of this story.

As for the tool, does the C6 need a special tool? On the C5 you just use a large magnet. I have a magnet that works on the C5. I'll even meet you somewhere cause it doesn't sound like your tires are safe to drive on

[Quiktrip]

That explains the other thread. Bummer!!! I would have lost it. Not a good experience at all. Hope you get it resolved easily. Robert

[Phoenix FRC]

That soo totally sux..... That's why I do as much of my own work as possible.

I can't imagine paying someone to do something technical to my car. Pay someone to mow my lawn... sure but don't touch my car, I'll do it thanks.

When it comes to suff like tires, that's a tricky one there, you have to get recommendations from friends and just hope like hell.

If... and when ever I pay someone to work on one of my cars I stay right there and micromanage the hell out of them.

Sorry to hear about the troubles, just keep your head on straight because you just might need to use it.

[Guest LT4ME]

That's a shame. I've mounted/dismounted hundreds of tires in my life. Everything from super lo-pro Impala SS tires to tires on a stock Toyota Camry to back tires on a John Deere tractor and never once did I ever scratch a wheel or damage a tire. I'm still trying to figure out just how you'd manage to put a hole in a tire by taking it on or off the rim...

Well, hopefully the owners of Extreme will see this and voluntairly make it right for you, even if they have to pay the bill incurred at another shop. But in the meantime, I'm sure all the Scope in the world won't wash teh bad taste out of your mouth...

[Guest Greg_AZ]

I have a saying "it's not the problem, it's how they handle the problems".  You obviously f'd up on both counts Chad!  I think we all need to hear Chad's side of this story.

As for the tool, does the C6 need a special tool?  On the C5 you just use a large magnet.  I have a magnet that works on the C5.  I'll even meet you somewhere cause it doesn't sound like your tires are safe to drive on   

Eddie 44,

Thanks for the offer, but I've tried to reset the sensors using a speaker magnet. The C6's require you to use a Bartec or similar.

[Guest Greg_AZ]

That's a shame. I've mounted/dismounted hundreds of tires in my life. Everything from super lo-pro Impala SS tires to tires on a stock Toyota Camry to back tires on a John Deere tractor and never once did I ever scratch a wheel or damage a tire. I'm still trying to figure out just how you'd manage to put a hole in a tire by taking it on or off the rim...

Well, hopefully the owners of Extreme will see this and voluntairly make it right for you, even if they have to pay the bill incurred at another shop. But in the meantime, I'm sure all the Scope in the world won't wash teh bad taste out of your mouth...

Runemaster,

The tire was damaged with that part of the machine that pushes the tire up from the bottom, to break the bead. It somehow cut a hole right where the tread and sidewall meet.

Really, there isn't anything for them to "make right". They replaced the tire at their cost. You can't replace time and inconvenience. They did their best, but despite what they told me, they are simply not equipped to finish the job. Like I said I'm cutting my losses...I have an appointment with Thorobred on Saturday.

[anmracing2]

Man oh man, that is a bum deal. Sorry to hear about this.

If they are using the 5060 Series Coates machines with the bead breaker on the side, then I can see how they could have punched a hole in the sidewall. The bead breaker on those machines are all steel and even with a nylon protector on it, it can do some damage to a tire. Especially if the bead breaker is not close enough to the bead lip of the wheel. If it's placed higher up on the tire sidewall, the weakest part of the tire, then it will cut through the nylon plys like a hot knife through warm butter..... Let me know if I can help you out...

Andrew

[Z O SICK]

greg_az, i remember meeting you on Monday. I was there waiting with my buddy and his black Z06 to get done. It was nice meeting you and you have a nice ride!

[Guest waymirec]

In the future I would recommend giving WSI a try. They're the ones that I ordered my custom 20x12 and 19x9.5 HRE's from and have done excellent work every time i've taken my car in. And they are just down the street from Xtreme.

http://www.wheelspecialists.com/

[Guest chad@xtreme]

After many inquiries here is Xtreme Motorsports response to Greg_AZ and other forum members.

We were here Saturday morning and open at 9 am. Being a Sat. we might run a little late. Darrell, as Greg refers to salesman, and Boone, the Tech, show up. They jump right on Greg's car to attempt to progam the sensors. We use a tool that is electronic, not an old school magnet. The tool is big and trains new TPS by erasing the stored frequency and reprogramming it. There are 4 frequencies in the tool. It takes time to search for the right frequency that the car has stored and what is in the TPS. In order to put the car in learn mode there is a process that must be followed. The lock/unlock process was misread from the diagnostic manual for programming tire pressure sensors. Boone thought that it read hit lock and then unlock, not hold together. I know, I know do not always go off what you read or take it literally. The tool can not find the TPS and therefore we can not reprogram the TPS. So Darrell and Boone did the best that they could do and no expense to Greg.

Greg returns to the shop to have us replace the Tire Pressure Sensor that he ordered, which my local dealer has in stock for us. Boone removes the wheel from the car. He then attempts to dismount the tire to replace the TPS. In the meatime, Cody and myself are in the process of training the new TPS before installing it in the wheel assembly. The car learns the TPS. I return to Boone to find that the tire machine has punctured a hole in the sidewall. We are being very cautious as we are a dealer for high end wheels. Please keep in mind that we are working with an IForged wheel and a Goodyear EMT tire. The wheel has ridges on the barrel that makes it difficult to remove or install a tire on it, not the easiest of tasks. As in the previous post we did an excellent install for Greg. The EMT is very unforgiving, as we used left over EMT tires for holding complete motors, and the bead is rock hard. After learning that the tire is junk, Greg is informed of the mishap. We start searching for alternatives, of wheel and tires to loan to Greg. We have many sizes of used tires and wheels but nothing that will be close to keep from throwing an ABS/ Tire Speed code. That is not a liability that I want to take. I proceed during this time to contact a large local tire warehouse and they do not have the tire. They have no idea when they will get their shipment from Goodyear. I start calling my local GM dealer to see if they have the tire or can get it. They say sure, we can have it next day for a fee, no other dealer in the valley shows to stock it. The total comes to about $450. I then call another large tire warehouse and they locate the tire in Louisiana. Since we are paying for the tire out of our pocket, I ordered the tire and paid for 2nd Day Air. The price of freight and tire comes to about $350. If I paid the extra fee for NDA it would have been way more and I am trying to keep lose at a minimum. So far Greg is still out nothing than time. Darrell give Greg a ride to his home which is, to best knowledge 20 miles round trip, in Darrell's Corvette. At 10 miles to the gallon and price of fuel, there goes another $20 out of our pocket.

The new tire shows up at 10 am. I now take the inative of doing the work myself. I spend close to 3 hours trying to fit a new tire on the wheel. I doing everything that I know to get the tire on. A new tire on a wheel that does not have a smooth barrel is like trying to fit 15 lbs of ______ in a 10 lb bag. Doable but is going to require some time and effort. Finally I come to a decision to take the tire and wheel to another tire wheel shop. More cost to us. They get the tire on the wheel. They start to put air in the tire and the stem is damaged. They proceed to replace the stem. I return with the wheel to our shop. Mount the wheel on the car and found that they installed a longer stem and is hitting caliper. Return there with wheel and tire to have it redone. I run, figuative speaking, to another tire store and get the shortest stem that they have, more cost of gas and time. The stem is replaced, by the other shop, and I return to our shop. Stem clears caliper and everything is going good. Time wise it is getting close to 5 pm. I am hoping that the car remembers us retraining the TPS. Darrell takes the car around the block to verify that the car knows the TPS. He returns to inform me that the car does recognize the one but lost the other 3. We start trying to relearn all TPS. For those who do not know, you start in the left front and then proceed to the right front, right rear, and then left rear. With the tool that is about 12 inches long it is very hard to get it behind, please keep mind out of gutter, the wheel to train the sensors. We remove the wheels and tires from all 4 corners in an attempt to get the sensors programmed. We can not get the TPS tool to find the left front, since it is banded to the wheel and ~ 3 inches of metal and air. We inform Greg that it would be best to try and fix the TPS another day as it is getting past closing time, or take is car to a GM dealer. We have had many issues with aftermarket wheels and Tire Pressure Sensors for C6 Corvettes. We have sent our customers to Wheel Specialists and they have sent their customers to us. We have all been here since 8 am and everyone is getting tired and frustrated. I have learned that it is best to step back and re-think this problem. Also I would like to go home to see my wife and 1 year old daughter before she goes to bed.

The valve stem, like I stated was installed at another wheel/tire store. I know it is our responsibility as we sourced it out. We are held liable for taking the wheel and tire other places. As for the scratch, if it was done by us or somewhere else, we are held responsible. I would have gladly taken a look at it and again sent it to get fixed at our charge. This is the first time I have heard of the scratch. My only question is the lip chrome or is the lip polished? If polished it can be buffed out and if chrome the scratch can be re-plated.

All of the Techs have been handling Corvettes for close to 4 years. I have been dealing with Corvettes for close to 8 years. We deal with HRE, Fikse, IForged, Kinesis, Weld and many other wheels. We have dealt with Vipers, Ferraris, and many other high end vehicles. We treat everyone fairly and with the upmost respect, if the customer owns a Pacer or an Enzo. All in all Greg only lost time without his car. We lost time that could have been spent on another customers car. We lost money from purchasing tire to having another shop install the tire to fuel doing the running around. We have lost potential customers because a person decided to post their problems without giving us the opportunity to correct the situation. I felt that we have done everything within our resources. I do regret that we lost Greg as a customer. It just sucks that it takes one bad word and the world comes crashing down or it takes pulling teeth to get one good compliment. I know that this is human nature and we all like to stare at the car wreck. I could ask others about complaints and issues that they have had with their cars and you do not see them posting, but yet they still use the company and refer others there. I could go on and on.

I have with held names of shops, dealers, and people for a reason. I do not want to start anything and I feel that this thread has had enough drama. I hope that Greg got this Tire Pressure Sensor resolved. I would love to hear the who, what, when, where, and how from him.

I understand that we have messed up and we did our best. I was not trying to dodge the problem, just trying to make it right and take care of the Greg first. He felt that he needed to post in order to get answers.

Hope that this answers all questions. Now that I have posted my response I will gladly answer any other questions. Thanks for your time and lending an ear.

Chad

[Guest LT4ME]

Thanks for taking the time to post that, Chad.

[MOTV8]

Thank you, very stand up.

"And now you know....the rest of the story." - Paul Harvey

[Z O SICK]

You keep saying that Greg only lost "time" like that has no value. I think the bigest problem with most places is that they think just because you didn't lose any money it's no big deal if you lose time. To some people, time is worth more than any amount of money! At least you were man enough to admit that you were wrong. That say's alot you and XMS. By reading your reply, it looks like you did everything you could to rectify the problem. This looked like a simple case of when it rains it pours. This also looks to be a lose-lose situation for all parties involved.

[Eddie44]

I've said it a couple of times in this thread but "it's not the problems, it's how they're handled". I think you did everything within your power to rectify the problem Chad! I can see why Greg was hot but I don't think it was a service problem sounds more like a public relations blunder that might not have been able to be resolved no matter what you did.

I personally thank you for your explanation and the concern you showed for the thoughts of people on this Forum!

[CZYDMND]

Wow.... I lost track.....

[Phoenix FRC]

You keep saying that Greg only lost "time" like that has no value.  I think the bigest problem with most places is that they think just because you didn't lose any money it's no big deal if you lose time.  To some people, time is worth more than any amount of money!  At least you were man enough to admit that you were wrong.  That say's alot you and XMS.  By reading your reply, it looks like you did everything you could to rectify the problem.  This looked like a simple case of when it rains it pours.  This also looks to be a lose-lose situation for all parties involved.

I didn't think of that but when I was reading your comment I was thinking about my wife saying,

"I thought you bought the car you wanted?"

Why did you have to spend that money anyway?

What was wrong with the wheels that came with the car?

Wasen't the wheels under warranty if there was something wrong?

Chevy wouldn't fix them for you.

Why did you buy that car again. She'd be letting me have it.. like this..

It's not always about money.

Its not always about time... but I must say that time is where I fall short. I had to take a day off work to do headers.

Sometimes its about sanity

[Desertdawg]

Very well explained Chad, it's good to hear both sides of the story...

[ckaprolet]

Very detailed response...the one thing that Chad mentioned that is very true is that it is much more difficult to get kudos than complaints. Let's all of remember to post the GOOD stuff as well!

I worked retail for 18 years so I can definitely relate. The one rule that always stuck with me throughout life is "If you can't fix the problem, be sure and fix the customer!"

Very true....

[Guest intmd8r]

Very detailed response...the one thing that Chad mentioned that is very true is that it is much more difficult to get kudos than complaints. Let's all of remember to post the GOOD stuff as well!

Absolutely.

I have always believed that people should get the kudos when they go above and beyond just as much as the complaints for screwing up.

Whenever we eat out and get EXCEPTIONAL service, I ask to see a manager at the end and tell them what a great job their server did. It's funny to see the manager's face when they walk up, because they just assume they're going to get a complaint, which is exactly why we do it. :D

Thanks for the response, Chad.

[Guest Greg_AZ]

We have lost potential customers because a person decided to post their problems without giving us the opportunity to correct the situation.

But wouldn't you agree that 3 days to fix one tire is plenty of opportunity to correct the situation? That's 2 days longer than it took to put all four tires on in the first place! And, if you read the post I made when the tires were first installed, I gave Xtreme big ups for a great job - but the sensors did not have to be re-programmed since they were going back in the same wheel positions.

If you read my last paragraph, my intent was to warn people contemplating using Xtreme for custom rim swaps, that your shop is not equipped at this time to handle what my particular job required. I think you'll agree that everything I posted is factual, and says nothing else about any other services you offer. So if my post caused someone, in a similar situation to mine, not to use you for a rim swap, then it did it's job - you shouldn't be doing this type of work on people's cars until you're equipped to do so.

I hope that Greg got this Tire Pressure Sensor resolved. I would love to hear the who, what, when, where, and how from him.

Thorobred Chevrolet in Chandler...in at 7am, out by 8:30, $60 including re-balancing the front tires (I did not discover until after I posted that the car shook above 100 mph, on a closed track of course;) ). I stood next to the technician while he used a Bartec TPMS reprogramming tool ( http://www.bartecusa.com ). Took him about 30 minutes to program all four tires, because he had to go around the front rims to find where the sensors were banded.

All in all Greg only lost time without his car.

Not having the Vette to drive was not an issue. I have two other vehicles to drive, and the Vette would have sat in my garage all week anyway. However, I can assure you that in my line of work the hours I spent waiting at your shop + having to get one of my employees to drive me there to pick the car up + the time at Thorobred cost me more than the parts and time you spent on my car.

[Donbecker]

I have a 30 year old Vette so all this stuff about the TPS doesn't really apply to me.

Personally, it would suck to go to a shop and not have something done in a timely manner.

But I've been to alot of cr@ppy mechanics and I would rather have one tell me it would take longer than expected than send me on my way with stuff not working right.

Just my opinion.

[Guest 1FASTC4]

I am trying to keep lose(sic) at a minimum.

Chad,

As a business owner I feel you erred here, even let a golden opportunity to dazzle a customer slip right thru your mitts.

This was F'd up so bad that, IMHO, you should have been scrambling to get his car back on the road ASAP, regardless of what amounts to incidental expense.

You grouse about the nominal expense of the shipping and some driving around by you and your employees. You missed the big picture completely. Had you handled this correctly you would have a thread on this site that said something like: "Xtreme screwed up my car by mistake but really went the extra miles to make it right. These guys at Xtreme are awesome in their dedication to taking care of their customers. I highly recommend these guys because I trust them to take good care of me, even under the toughest of circumstances." The positive press this represents would have been worth many times more than what you would have spent by handling the problem correctly, IMHO

Instead you have a complaint thread and it has been read by at least one other potential customer who feels you screwed up, which is forgiveable, but then dropped the ball big time on making it right, which is not forgiveable.

Frankly, if you did this to my car, then I found out you had a tire shipped second day air(as opposed to overnight) in order to save a few dollars, I would have gone thru the roof.

Additionally, as a small business owner, it is inconceivable to me that you would quit working on a car you F'd up because "it was getting close to closing time".

IMHO you made a series of bad business decisions and are now reaping what you sowed in the form of the bad publicity of this thread. At the very least, this is a learning opportunity for you.

[Z O SICK]

I am trying to keep lose(sic) at a minimum.

Chad,

As a business owner I feel you erred here, even let a golden opportunity to dazzle a customer slip right thru your mitts.

This was F'd up so bad that, IMHO, you should have been scrambling to get his car back on the road ASAP, regardless of what amounts to incidental expense.

You grouse about the nominal expense of the shipping and some driving around by you and your employees. You missed the big picture completely. Had you handled this correctly you would have a thread on this site that said something like: "Xtreme screwed up my car by mistake but really went the extra miles to make it right. These guys at Xtreme are awesome in their dedication to taking care of their customers. I highly recommend these guys because I trust them to take good care of me, even under the toughest of circumstances." The positive press this represents would have been worth many times more than what you would have spent by handling the problem correctly, IMHO

Instead you have a complaint thread and it has been read by at least one other potential customer who feels you screwed up, which is forgiveable, but then dropped the ball big time on making it right, which is not forgiveable.

Frankly, if you did this to my car, then I found out you had a tire shipped second day air(as opposed to overnight) in order to save a few dollars, I would have gone thru the roof.

Additionally, as a small business owner, it is inconceivable to me that you would quit working on a car you F'd up because "it was getting close to closing time".

IMHO you made a series of bad business decisions and are now reaping what you sowed in the form of the bad publicity of this thread. At the very least, this is a learning opportunity for you.

Good post!

[Guest chad@xtreme]

I would like to say thanks for all the input. Some good information and some...well not so good. We have learned from our mistakes and grown from this experience.

Chad