Two Fangs Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 I don't think so. I personally haven't soaked lifters in any engines I ave built since the late 80's. I would imagine the reason for an extended soak has little to do with the motor oil penetrating the lifter surface, and more to do with getting rid of every last possible air bubble that may be hiding out in the lifters. Priming the oil system negates the need for this practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 That was going to be my question. How do you prime the oiling system without turning the engine over? My car is so jealous, it turned yellow and red... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Ted, I've seen on Power Block how they prime them. From what it looks like, they attach a drill directly to the oil pump and spin it, there-by pumping oil through the entire system. At least that's what it looks like. Great Job Parker, keep'em coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 That was going to be my question. How do you prime the oiling system without turning the engine over? My car is so jealous, it turned yellow and red... You use an air or electrical pump (mine is air). This feeds and pushes oil through the system ensuring all bearings, push rod tubes, and nooks and crannies are primed. Usually you just feed the oil through the oil pressure sending unit hole before the engine ever goes in the car. Make sure oil flows through all pushrods. Typically, it helps to have a pan, so you don't make a mess. You may have to rotate the crank a couple of times slowly by hand to make sure everything is fully lubricated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Ted, I've seen on Power Block how they prime them. From what it looks like, they attach a drill directly to the oil pump and spin it, there-by pumping oil through the entire system. At least that's what it looks like. Great Job Parker, keep'em coming. Yep, you're right. For the old school GM, Ford and MOPARs with a distributor, this is exactly how we do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTV8 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Your lobes are huge. Can't wait for the custom pistons. Go over the coatings and stuff...too cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 You got it, I'll make sure I cover the coatings. Thanks for the post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 These days, most folks prime the oiling system and build oil pressure before the engine is ever started. This ensures immediate and proper lubrication when the engine is started for the first time. Damn! You mean I wasn't supposed to do that back in the dark ages of the 60's/70's? So running the oil pump with a drill motor before firing it up back then was a couple of decades premature. Oh No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 :smilelol Before we had the "special tool" for priming, we would use an old beat up distributor. You could always tell when you had pressure because the pump would want to pull the drill right out of your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOXXOH Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 :smilelol You could always tell when you had pressure because the pump would want to pull the drill right out of your hand. Oh Yeah. The first time I thought I'd broken something and then oil sprayed out the hole for the pressure gauge. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 :smilelol You could always tell when you had pressure because the pump would want to pull the drill right out of your hand. Oh Yeah. The first time I thought I'd broken something and then oil sprayed out the hole for the pressure gauge. What a mess. Also an indicator of oil pressure, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCMSH Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 ...that puts a tingle in my happy sack ....and your new tagline! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dvl4evr Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 ...that puts a tingle in my happy sack ....and your new tagline! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Wow, every time something gets posted her I get excited about seeing new pics...then get bummed when there aren't any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTV8 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blk n Blu Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve@LPM Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Not sure if your just waiting till a little later but I just wanted to point somethign out that caught my eye that Ive seen a few people miss in the past. Theres a small "freeze plug" that block off an oil passage in the front of the motor. If its not in there, there will be no oil pressure. Just thought Id point it out just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Thanks for pointing it out, Steve. I have not put any oil or core plugs in the engine yet, but I have to install that one, and more in the back that has been a bit of a headache. In the next installment of the write-up, I'll be going over these. Thanks for looking out, though. I really do appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayeagle Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Only 'trick' I ever used for hydrastic lifters is putting them in a can full of oil, pumping the plunger to fill the lifter, then installing said lifter right away. It was part of the assembly process I used. I've also never done an assembly that was interrupted waiting for parts. I have everything on hand before I begin and jam on .. hate starting and stopping, too easy to miss a step. All kinda myths an legends out there about 'tricks' that just do not do anything for ya. 'soaking' lifters is one of 'em. -grin- 'Can't run a tunnel ram on the street' is another -very evil grin- -Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayeagle Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Yanno 2 Snails .. the term 'hydrodynamic wedge' kinda intrigued me. Been rattling around in my head last few days, buggin me. Ideally, oil pressure lubricating system acts like a closed system. Pressure is felt throughout at any given moment. The term suggests a wedge of pressure extending out the oil passage of the crank as it spins. (imagine the 'bow wave' as you run a fast flowing hose across a plate of glass) Problem is, there is no place for the oil to go to make a bow wave or wedge.. ..at the rpm the crank spins even at idle for all intents the oil acts like a closed system. Granted, pressure bleeds off the bearings an such as oil is displaced, ..pushed out by the continuous supply at pressure from oily passages. IMHO, not nearly fast enough of a displacement to even be able to measure a pressure differential for each passage of the oil outlet across the bearing surface. Loose clearances will allow faster displacement, improving cooling at the risk of film shear penetration (more 'wiggle' room for a hammer blow to drive the crank or rod thru the lubricating film) ..and reduced friction tween the surfaces. -Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 As an added introductory statement, this wedge is related to the properties of the oil and the rotation of the crankshaft. The pressure generated by the oil pump is not sufficient to create the fluid dynamics at play here. Yanno 2 Snails .. the term 'hydrodynamic wedge' kinda intrigued me. Been rattling around in my head last few days, buggin me. Ideally, oil pressure lubricating system acts like a closed system. Pressure is felt throughout at any given moment. Actually, the lubrication system is not closed, if it were, there would be no flow. There is a continuous flow of oil through the system from pump to filter to sump. The term suggests a wedge of pressure extending out the oil passage of the crank as it spins. (imagine the 'bow wave' as you run a fast flowing hose across a plate of glass) The term is actually a definition of the state of oil between the crankshaft and bearing surface. There are three "hydro" forces at play here, adhesion (how well the oil sticks to another surface), cohesion (how well the oil sticks to itself), and viscosity ( the oil's resistance to flow). The "dynamic" force is the rotation of the crankshaft. Problem is, there is no place for the oil to go to make a bow wave or wedge.. ..at the rpm the crank spins even at idle for all intents the oil acts like a closed system. As the oil leaves the block, and enters the area between the crank and bearing, adhesion allows it to be dragged in the direction of crankshaft rotation where the crank actually lifts away from the bearing. The oil then leaks away from the bearings, onto the crank throws, and is then slung onto the cylinder walls. When the engine is running properly, there is no mechanical contact between the bearing surfaces and the crankshaft Granted, pressure bleeds off the bearings an such as oil is displaced, ..pushed out by the continuous supply at pressure from oily passages. IMHO, not nearly fast enough of a displacement to even be able to measure a pressure differential for each passage of the oil outlet across the bearing surface. Not sure I understand the reasoning here, the pressure differential between oil in the journal and oil in the sump is whatever the current oil pressure is. The oil in the wedge is bearing much more force, likely several thousand pounds, effectively. Loose clearances will allow faster displacement, improving cooling at the risk of film shear penetration (more 'wiggle' room for a hammer blow to drive the crank or rod thru the lubricating film) ..and reduced friction tween the surfaces. -Frank Larger clearances allow for the buildup of a lager wedge. In other words, the distance between the crank and the bearing journals can be increased, but this takes more oil volume, and some instances more viscosity. Increasing this distance lessens the chance of the IMEP overcoming the wedge and allowing mechanical contact between the bearing and crank. To learn more about the properties of the hydrodynamic wedge, enjoy this light reading. More Info on the Hydrodynamic Wedge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayeagle Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 To learn more about the properties of the hydrodynamic wedge, enjoy this light reading. More Info on the Hydrodynamic Wedge *Thanks* 2-Snails .. very clearly written, learned a lot that I did not know So if I understand correctly, oily pressure seen on the dash is just system delivery pressure, has nothin to do with keepin the bearings apart from the crank other than gettin the oil there so it can do what it needs to do. The wedge is actually laid out across the bearing surface due to the adhesion of the oil, rotation of the crank, and pressure of combustion txferred down the rod. It's not a bow wave at all. Fascinating stuff .. yes .. I geek out on stuff like this -Frank (a gearhead no less) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 You got it That's why we're all here; to cuss and discuss these cars we love (and sometimes hate) Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 This time I will post some pics. That way Sean doesn't freak out This portion of the build deals with the reciprocating assembly. Getting the pistons in the cylinders and discussing some more challenges with the build. Let's start by taking it back to the beginning, and looking at the pistons. I was certainly beyond excited to get them quite some time back. They were custom built for me by Wiseco. I will go into a few things about them that got me excited, and then get into the coatings. First, the obligatory pic... A few features of the pistons are the larger ring grooves, allowing a thicker piston ring for more heat transfer between the piston and cylinder wall. Thicker rings also reduce the chance for flutter under high boost. Additionally, the piston crowns were speced and clearanced for the large valves used in the head. There are a few more subtle things like a custom piston pin offset, used to rock the piston over from TDC, and a custom "ring pack" including the distances between the rings and also where the rings sit on the piston. The top ring is down over 0.250" to protect it against the violence taking place in the combustion chamber. The tiny grooves on the piston crown between the top of the piston and the top ring (not my idea, but I try to steal good ones when I can) will assist in dissipating shockwaves that could potentially damage the ring. The coatings were placed on the pistons by Swain Tech, in my humble opinion, the best coating company of its type in the world. The pistons have two coatings, a very gold colored coating on the piston crown, and a dark grey coating on the piston skirt. The gold coating is not some sort of magical protective armor, its main job is to distribute and reflect heat. This gold coating has the feel of the ol' elementary school chalk board, it feels like it would leave the same traces, if you tried to scratch it with your fingernail. The purpose of this coating is to reflect heat energy back into the combustion chamber, out into the exhaust, and ultimately to the turbine wheels in the turbo chargers. While keeping heat energy in the chamber, it will also aid in the reduction of detonation-causing hot spots on the piston surface, by ensuring the entire top of the piston is the same temperature. Additionally, less heat transfer to the piston, means less heat at the wrist pin and at the rings. This will reduce the potential for damage to these components and the oil that is protecting them. The dark colored coating on the piston skirt is a partially protective, and partially lubricative coating. The pistons in this engine are a 2618 aluminum alloy. It is very resistant to cracking or breaking. The down side to this, is the expansion rates of 2618 are not very good. The piston has a tendency to grow as the engine reaches operating temperature. To keep the piston from getting stuck or scuffing the cylinder when the engine is warm, it has to be machined smaller than one would normally like to allow to make up for this expansion. During cold start-ups, the piston can rattle around a bit until it warms up and fits the cylinder bore as it should. This coating protects the skirt from damage during this warm up period, by providing a slick surface to keep the piston from wedging itself against the cylinder. The slick surface reduces friction between the piston skirt and cylinder wall when the piston is warm. One interesting thing about these pistons, is the use of a ring support for the bottom oil control rings. These are use when the cut out for the piston wrist pin actually extends into the oil control ring groove on the piston. These spacers have a dimple that must point downward into the piston pin bore. For this build, specialized HellFire rings were used. The upper and second ring end gaps were checked, filed, and adjusted until the ring gap required for this build was achieved. Next, after these ring spacers were installed, it was time to go ahead and install the ring pack. As part of this build, all oil clearances were checked with both math, by measuring the outer diameter crank journal and the inner diameter of the cap with the bearing installed, and then verified with Plasti-Gage. I did not take any pictures of the oil clearances or piston installation here, I just got into the groove and didn't take pictures. But, believe it or not, they did all make it in. The crank was rotated several times after each piston install to ensure the assembly was free and not binding. Once the pistons were all installed, it was time to verify the piston to deck clearance. This is an incredibly important measurement. To produce optimum power, the proper quench area (the area between the flat part of the piston and the flat part of the combustion chamber) must be achieved. The quench area is made up of the distance between the piston and the deck, and the thickness of the head gasket. Most engine builders keep the quench they choose to use a secret, but typically, it falls between 0.030"and 0.050". The quench area is responsible for creating a shock wave between the near collision of the piston and cylinder head. The shock wave from the close collision propels the air/fuel mixture at high velocity across the combustion chamber creating a turbulent and violent swirl. This movement speeds up the flame travel and cylinder pressure after TDC to increase power. Naturally, when we start talking about flame travel speed and how quench affects it, knowing the engine combination and quench you use will let you know how much timing should be necessary for peak torque. Timing and quench are interrelated, and they are both typically secrets that performance engine builders do not share. First, we need to get the piston to true top dead center. I use a dial indicator for this. When the needle stops moving, you are at the top. Here, demonstrated by my lovely assistant, a straightedge and feeler gauge is used to determine deck clearance. Next, this will be added to the head gasket thickness and the quench area for this engine will be known. In taking the actual quench measurement, it was determined that the head gaskets I ordered did not match the thickness I requested. I have sent them back. So, the head install portion of the build will be delayed. Joy. Not be be upset, I decided to go ahead and install the front oil plug that Steve mentioned earlier in this thread, and also two more in the rear of the block. I could then pop on the rear cover, and begin pacing back and forth while I have another set of custom head gaskets built. Joy, again. So to start, I installed the front oil plug using the peening side of a ball peen hammer and a heavy rubber mallet. This seems to seat the plug squarely, and at the right depth. Next, was a royal pain in the ass. There is an oil plug used in the LSX block by the camshaft oiling galleries. The plug is supposed to screw in and fit in a recess in the rear cover. Also, besides looking at the recess, look at the crazy rear cover seal, it is actually just rubber rope. My gorilla snot glue job, leaves a bit to be desired, but meets the intended objective, LOL. So, after installing the plug, the rear cover would not fit. It stuck out. I measured this, and then ground this amount off of the plug. After reinstalling the plug and the cover, the cover stuck out by the same amount. WTF, over. Come to find out, the nifty recess cast into the rear cover is smaller than the plug it is designed to clear. Soooo, I had to remove the plug and grind it down until it would fit flush in the block. By the time I finished grinding, the square socket cast into the plug was gone. I had to use a dremel to cut a slot into the plug, so that I could install it with a large screwdriver Joy, yet again. Next, the plastic rear oil plug was installed. Just a little lube, a nice firm push, and voila! http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp262/evil04cobra/Corvette%20Build/ea5653dd.jpg http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp262/evil04cobra/Corvette%20Build/1684b89f.jpg http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp262/evil04cobra/Corvette%20Build/9793827f.jpg The rear main seal was installed in the rear cover, and the rear cover installed. The trick here is to ensure you let the rear main seal place the cover, and not the other way around. In this picture, the rear main was not yet installed, but shows the cover and orientation. http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp262/evil04cobra/Corvette%20Build/3090de82.jpg Also, somewhere between the pistons being installed, and the deck clearance being measured, the ARP head studs were installed. http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp262/evil04cobra/Corvette%20Build/8122f049.jpg This is the last update for a bit, currently my head gaskets are being remade, and I am waiting for my Katech oil pump to come off of eternal back order. Joy, once more. Once I get the next parts in, I will contine on, I hope you will be here to share in the journey. 'Til next time..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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