NicD Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Sure just fire me off an email. With that sized injector I personally would scale all load/spark tables to ~50% since you are running E85 and leaving the stoich table alone, less mess and more resolution. Of course this depends on your base fuel pressure among other things. It's not often that I recommend scaling as a lot of times many combos don't need the extra headroom on the timing tables and using the stoich table as a global fuel modifier works great but with your big injectors and power level it's a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Understand. I will send you an email. My largest obstacle is staying under the hard coded 63.5 lb/hr injector flow rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Understand. I will send you an email. My largest obstacle is staying under the hard coded 63.5 lb/hr injector flow rate. Yup, that sucks on these early-mid year calibrations in these controllers. Using the stoich table is a nice way to get around that limitation without screwing up load tables as long as you don't need the headroom on the timing tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCMSH Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Understand. I will send you an email. My largest obstacle is staying under the hard coded 63.5 lb/hr injector flow rate. Yup, that sucks on these early-mid year calibrations in these controllers. Using the stoich table is a nice way to get around that limitation without screwing up load tables as long as you don't need the headroom on the timing tables. I don't know if I'm confused or aroused by all this speak............yep, aroused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTV8 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I don't know if I'm confused or aroused by all this speak............yep, aroused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I don't know if I'm confused or aroused by all this speak............yep, aroused. SCHWING!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Ha ha, Leave Nic and I alone, we're having grown-up talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Y Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Ha ha, Leave Nic and I alone, we're having grown-up talk Says the Auto parts porn pusher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNMMotorsports Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 The new technology used with these injectors allows previously unobtainable minimum pulsewidth response and stability that will allow a stock idle RPM. Those new Bosch injectors are sweet. I've tuned the 160lb and 200lb versions (ID1600 and ID2000) and while they do idle pretty clean they will ride the minimum pulsewidth at idle on most motor configurations. Dropping the base fuel pressure helps a little bit but they are still a very large injector and act like one even though they are pretty linear for their size. It sounds like you and me are in the same boat lol. I've decided to switch to e-85 too. I'm going to either run three 255 Walbros or 2 DW300 fuel pumps and 160lb high impedence injectors. That's the spirit! If you come across a good deal on some injectors let me know : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 If you come across a good deal on some injectors let me know : ) Do you know Paul? He is the mastermind behind Injector Dynamics, and he is right here in town. If you don't know him, I am sure I could arrange a meeting . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ha ha, Leave Nic and I alone, we're having grown-up talk Says the Auto parts porn pusher! Ha ha, thanks, Ted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 So when does the actual build start? Tomorrow. I received word from the freight company that the block is sitting on their dock. I'm going to go get it in the morning. :wave3: :wave3: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNMMotorsports Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 If you come across a good deal on some injectors let me know : ) Do you know Paul? He is the mastermind behind Injector Dynamics, and he is right here in town. If you don't know him, I am sure I could arrange a meeting . That would be great. Would you mind PMing me his number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 That would be great. Would you mind PMing me his number? Sure, let me dig it out of the ol' Rolodex, and I'll send you a PM tonight or tomorrow at the latest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCMSH Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 That would be great. Would you mind PMing me his number? Sure, let me dig it out of the ol' Rolodex, and I'll send you a PM tonight or tomorrow at the latest.... Ok, letting you off the matt cuz you're giving all da love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Thanks, duder. I was beginning to freak out a bit, LOL Nothin' but love for all of you Moderator types. You know, "big ups" and all of that jazz :lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNMMotorsports Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 That would be great. Would you mind PMing me his number? Sure, let me dig it out of the ol' Rolodex, and I'll send you a PM tonight or tomorrow at the latest.... Thanks Buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Thanks Buddy. PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfoot Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Damn, and I can't make it over tomorrow...or all through the weekend for that matter. I'll be at work on Tuesday morning, but you'll have to let us know as you head out to the garage each day. Wish I could be there for the block going together. I've never actually been part of reassembling a motor from the ground up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 I plan on taking and posting lots of pics; that is, of course, as long as Jim and Ted don't take away my posting privileges (again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Do you know Paul? He is the mastermind behind Injector Dynamics, and he is right here in town. If you don't know him, I am sure I could arrange a meeting . LOL, Paul and I got into a pissing contest somewhere on the HP Tuners forums when he declared that without provided data tuning for injectors is worthless and paramount to the difference between tuning a carb vs injection. This is a joke since it's relatively easy to back calculate offsets with what the LS PCMs show you in the scanner such as estimated airflows, etc. With a known good configuration and a simple injector swap it's fairly straight forward to calculate the offsets. Their offset and short pulse adder data work great on the original Bosch injectors that they start out as before they go through their flow matching process since they are literally the same thing anyways. They are simply selling injectors for a premium with data which I see no problem with, however acting like you can't calculate it yourself and get damn close if you know what you are doing is a joke to anybody who has been tuning these PCMs for a long time. I think he was referring to the older marine truck injectors that have been around for a long time and they suggested selling them and buying theirs which is pointless since those injectors are VERY easy to get dialed in and have been so for years before they even came on the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ha ha, Leave Nic and I alone, we're having grown-up talk LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Fangs Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 Do you know Paul? He is the mastermind behind Injector Dynamics, and he is right here in town. If you don't know him, I am sure I could arrange a meeting . LOL, Paul and I got into a pissing contest somewhere on the HP Tuners forums when he declared that without provided data tuning for injectors is worthless and paramount to the difference between tuning a carb vs injection. This is a joke since it's relatively easy to back calculate offsets with what the LS PCMs show you in the scanner such as estimated airflows, etc. With a known good configuration and a simple injector swap it's fairly straight forward to calculate the offsets. Their offset and short pulse adder data work great on the original Bosch injectors that they start out as before they go through their flow matching process since they are literally the same thing anyways. They are simply selling injectors for a premium with data which I see no problem with, however acting like you can't calculate it yourself and get damn close if you know what you are doing is a joke to anybody who has been tuning these PCMs for a long time. I think he was referring to the older marine truck injectors that have been around for a long time and they suggested selling them and buying theirs which is pointless since those injectors are VERY easy to get dialed in and have been so for years before they even came on the scene. You're a smart guy. Undoubtedly why so many folks rely on you for tuning their vehicles. I am thoroughly impressed. An I am not saying that to make myself feel better, since I agree with all of your points. I agree, it is the data you are paying for. Lots folks out there selling the new style Bosch injectors for much less money. I also agree that if you have calibrated enough PCMs, you can manipulate the short pulse and min PW values to build a stable fueling environment. These values and slope data seems to be where all of the voodoo and hibbity-jibbity boogey man talk begins when talking to folks about calibrating the injectors. The data just saves time, but even then, may require small adjustments. Even with the data, it may not mean plug-and-play for the fueling calibration, especially some the EQ gain values, like IVT. Even so, with all of these tables, tuning these days is TONS easier than it was back in the good old OBDI Grand National days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicD Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 You're a smart guy. Undoubtedly why so many folks rely on you for tuning their vehicles. I am thoroughly impressed. An I am not saying that to make myself feel better, since I agree with all of your points. I agree, it is the data you are paying for. Lots folks out there selling the new style Bosch injectors for much less money. I also agree that if you have calibrated enough PCMs, you can manipulate the short pulse and min PW values to build a stable fueling environment. These values and slope data seems to be where all of the voodoo and hibbity-jibbity boogey man talk begins when talking to folks about calibrating the injectors. The data just saves time, but even then, may require small adjustments. Even with the data, it may not mean plug-and-play for the fueling calibration, especially some the EQ gain values, like IVT. Even so, with all of these tables, tuning these days is TONS easier than it was back in the good old OBDI Grand National days. Thanks! The injector data is a very nice thing to have and I push people in that direction when cost is not an issue but it's certainly not necessary to get damn close on the fueling unlike what you hear from people selling tuning books, classes, and injectors. Hell the difference between matched sets of the same injectors is enough to throw off those provided numbers by a bit anyways and always needs minor adjustments to those tables and more. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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