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Speeding tickets without radar....check it out, it may happen to you!


fourseventeen

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While I was in LE, and granted that was yrs ago, we wrote tickets based on visual estimates. I sure wouldn't have written one for 2 mph over. Most of them I wrote were for 20-25- over. As the article says, that's a big part of a radar operators job. They taught us that you first visually estimated the speed and then confirmed your estimate with the radar gun. That way if the radar reading was thrown out you could still fall back on your visual estimate.

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No way you should be able to give a ticket based on your word. In this case it's possible to be driving 55 in a 55 and get a ticket for 67...

the radar gun indicated Jenney's speed at 82 mph, but Santimarino testified that he visually estimated Jenney was going 70 mph. Granted, in this case it was a 12 mph discrepancy in Jenney's favor, but that's still a big difference that makes for big irony given that the Supreme Court cited Santimarino's "training, OPOTA certification and experience in visually estimating speed" when deciding against Jenny.

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fourseventeen

I was also taught to visually estimate the vehicles speed b4 sighting the radar speed but I dont feel someone should be issued a citation based purely on a visual estimate. I may stop someone using the visual as PC but I wouldnt issue a cite based on that.

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We wouldn't cite based on visual unless it was aggravated as in 20-25 or more over and someone in and out of traffic boardering on reckless driving. I don't know of any officer that would cite for less than 10 over and probably more than 25 in majority of cases. It would also be in a situation where you didn't have a radar gun and didn't have an opportunity to pace the vehicle. Drew, you say cops shouldn't be allowed to cite based on their word. 90% of citations written in the Phx metro area are not written based on radar. Officers pace the vehicle and write the citation. It's just their word as to what their speed was.

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Officers pace the vehicle and write the citation. It's just their word as to what their speed was.

Thats what my last ticket said..."Paced"

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Awhile ago....here in ARIZONA....while spending a Saturday in traffic safety school.....ahem....they told us that we could get a ticket for "a display of excessive speed". They went on to explain that it was simply the subjective judgement of the LEO. So this "estimated speed" judgement on the part of the observing LEO doesn't surprise me at all.

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Drew, you say cops shouldn't be allowed to cite based on their word. 90% of citations written in the Phx metro area are not written based on radar. Officers pace the vehicle and write the citation. It's just their word as to what their speed was.

Then 90% of those citations are revenue generating bull crap and nothing more. I wouldn't settle for a ticket based on a cops word, especially when speeding rarely is the sole cause of accidents. As shown before, cops are human and can be off as much as 12mph which means I could get a ticket even when driving 55 in a 55.
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I just got written for criminal speeding based upon an officer that had to call her FTO to ask him what to charge me with. I was in a 40 zone and was watching my heads up as I passed a car, and never got above 55. Sure, I was speeding. Sure, I was passing a bit aggressively, but... I was not 25 over. The officer was clearly very new, and was ALL pissed off, barking at me, calling me a liar... She was out of line if you ask me. After writing the ticket, when she presented it to me, I asked her what speed she was citing me at, and her response was to take a half step back to square herself to me, and yelled at me "I'm not here to argue with you, you can either sign it or go to jail!!!" So we shall see if an officer who hasn't passed her FTO will be able to prosecute me in court for observed speed.

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Now that's a "dashcam" video I want to see on youtube... :lol Let us know how it works out Chris.

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I just got written for criminal speeding based upon an officer that had to call her FTO to ask him what to charge me with. I was in a 40 zone and was watching my heads up as I passed a car, and never got above 55. Sure, I was speeding. Sure, I was passing a bit aggressively, but... I was not 25 over.

The officer was clearly very new, and was ALL pissed off, barking at me, calling me a liar... She was out of line if you ask me. After writing the ticket, when she presented it to me, I asked her what speed she was citing me at, and her response was to take a half step back to square herself to me, and yelled at me "I'm not here to argue with you, you can either sign it or go to jail!!!"

So we shall see if an officer who hasn't passed her FTO will be able to prosecute me in court for observed speed.

Just out of curiosity, was it a Maricopa County Deputy?

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I just got written for criminal speeding based upon an officer that had to call her FTO to ask him what to charge me with. I was in a 40 zone and was watching my heads up as I passed a car, and never got above 55. Sure, I was speeding. Sure, I was passing a bit aggressively, but... I was not 25 over.

The officer was clearly very new, and was ALL pissed off, barking at me, calling me a liar... She was out of line if you ask me. After writing the ticket, when she presented it to me, I asked her what speed she was citing me at, and her response was to take a half step back to square herself to me, and yelled at me "I'm not here to argue with you, you can either sign it or go to jail!!!"

So we shall see if an officer who hasn't passed her FTO will be able to prosecute me in court for observed speed.

Just out of curiosity, was it a Maricopa County Deputy?

No, Tucson police.

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I just got written for criminal speeding based upon an officer that had to call her FTO to ask him what to charge me with. I was in a 40 zone and was watching my heads up as I passed a car, and never got above 55. Sure, I was speeding. Sure, I was passing a bit aggressively, but... I was not 25 over.

The officer was clearly very new, and was ALL pissed off, barking at me, calling me a liar... She was out of line if you ask me. After writing the ticket, when she presented it to me, I asked her what speed she was citing me at, and her response was to take a half step back to square herself to me, and yelled at me "I'm not here to argue with you, you can either sign it or go to jail!!!"

So we shall see if an officer who hasn't passed her FTO will be able to prosecute me in court for observed speed.

Just out of curiosity, was it a Maricopa County Deputy?

No, Tucson police.

....who are worse than the dreaded Suprise/Avondale LEO's I've been hearing about when it comes to speeding tickets.

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There's no reason to get yelled at during a traffic stop unless you yelled at the officer first. Speak to her supervisor about the incident and lodge a formal complaint if you feel that's appropriate. Secondly, the exact speed you were travelling should be listed on the citation as well as the method for how the speed was measured or obtained. If you want any advice, call or PM me.

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If you want any advice, call or PM me.

Cell Phone dead, PM's full...

One nut is larger and hangs lower than the other.

Tried several attempts to lengthen and enlarge the other one to match.

No luck so far.

Advice?

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If you want any advice, call or PM me.

Cell Phone dead, PM's full...

One nut is larger and hangs lower than the other.

Tried several attempts to lengthen and enlarge the other one to match.

No luck so far.

Advice?

Use the nipple clamps I gave you for christmas and hang the double headed purple thing off the shorter one until they match.
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Marana Rich

Can you get taken to jail for refusing to sign a traffic ticket?

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Can you get taken to jail for refusing to sign a traffic ticket?

In Arizona, you can be booked into jail for a Criminal Traffic offense. By signing the citation, you are promising to appear in court for the initial appearance. Refusing to sign means you are not promising to appear. They will book you into jail to guarantee you appear for the initial appearance before the judge.

Simple speeding, 28-701.A is civil offense, not criminal. You won't get booked for refusing to sign. BP got the criminal version for more than 20 over. The burden of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt" for the criminal offense. Much harder to do.

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Can you get taken to jail for refusing to sign a traffic ticket?

For a civil citation they'll just mark it served and hand it to you but for a criminal citation you will go to jail for not signing.
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There's a video on YouTube of a Utah LEO tazing a speeder for arguing and not wanting to sign the citation for a simple speeding infraction.

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There's a video on YouTube of a Utah LEO tazing a speeder for arguing and not wanting to sign the citation for a simple speeding infraction.

I don't know what Utah laws are. They might charge speeding as criminal whereas AZ doesn't.
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There's a video on YouTube of a Utah LEO tazing a speeder for arguing and not wanting to sign the citation for a simple speeding infraction.

I don't know what Utah laws are. They might charge speeding as criminal whereas AZ doesn't.

I don't know either, but here's the truncated version of the video aired by Inside Edition.

Utah LEO tazers a speeder

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