Phoenix PD and FD lay offs

[Marco]

Wayner? Wayner?

IBTL

Now that's funny shite!!!

I've been employed in the "private sector" my entire life. I can be fired or let go because it's a right to work state.

If my company doesn't meet revenue goals, there's head chopping.

Why should having a government job entitle anybody a life long career exempt from layoffs or firings?

I think the main point here, is the GOV is cutting some of the most important parts dealing with safety and life saving abilites and not form where they "should" be. No one is saying that they should be immune, but the government needs to work better and make "wiser" choices for for the benefit of public safety.

They(government) need better skills in efficiency. I grew up with politics, my father ran for seats in our government for many years just to force these issues. The issues consists of corruption, lazyness, stupidity and more corruption. Kirby Allan he is very entertaining. Yea he's into music also lol

[MadMax]

When it comes to firing, I think my job is as important to me and my family as the next guy.

Whether you're a GOV employee or in the private sector, everybody wants to keep their job and can point fingers as to whose job is more important.

Do you want to risk all the other out of work folks to put your family in danger by not having adequate police protection. What happens if your wife is home alone and someone tries to break in and the PD takes 8 mins vs 4 mins now. You'll be the first to scream.

It's all good to lay off police and fire until you're the one that needs them!

In any of my posts, did I mention Police or firefighters?

I don't expect the police to come to my aid now in 8 minutes. 1 minute is too long IMO.

We've done our best to take necessary measures to protect ourselves in case of an intruder, etc.

[HOXXOH]

Not to say that the FD and PD jobs aren't important, but they aren't the only critical jobs in our society. They certainly are the most visible and easily controlled by the government. Other than the healthcare and repair industries, fire and police (including military) are the only jobs that come to mind that are considered incident demand. All the rest are related to the volume of demand.

[Phill's Vette]

I think my work is more important than all others - providing Beer, Tobacco and Gas to all the world. With out any one of these three, there would be anarchy in the streets, civil war within the cities and a nationwide 24 hour curfew! At least this is what I tell myself and it helps me sleep at night

[MadMax]

Not to say that the FD and PD jobs aren't important, but they aren't the only critical jobs in our society. They certainly are the most visible and easily controlled by the government. Other than the healthcare and repair industries, fire and police (including military) are the only jobs that come to mind that are considered incident demand. All the rest are related to the volume of demand.

Unfortunately, the police and fire departments probably represent the highest number of employees for the City. Easier for management to lay off the masses to get immediate impact to the bottom line, and get the economic message to the general public.

[John68]

My ACE family. This was great topics, for seven years of my life I was a government Employee for the Department of child support In California, and Arizona. One year for the Department of the Air force and today I'm not able to fine work. In the mornings you see all this police taking breafast in local places, in the office you see clerical staff talking, having coffee. Some case workers talk, talk, and talk, and the job needs to be done. All because the department needs to have a buget for the next year. I call this politics, politics, politics. "Bull S."

[c7speed]

How about solutions to the problem? You don't have enough money to pay for everything, what do you do?

[az-gold]

How about solutions to the problem? You don't have enough money to pay for everything, what do you do?

The first thing I'd suggest is that all social programs and services are only available to those people who can document that they are here legally.

What would be wrong with that?

This shouldn't be a surprise to any of you, but in case you didn't know it, hospitals by law cannot deny treatment to anyone.

As a result, as we've all known for quite some time, that those with health insurance are billed at rates to subsidize those without coverage, no secret or headline here, right?

So, if some people can get health care services for basically free, with no proof of citizenship, which is the case, why don't we all stop paying for health insurance? After all, with being citizens we of all people should be entitled to the free or very low cost health caiire that those get whom we share the waiting rooms with now receive, right? Why continue to subsidize that part of the consuming public that has no right to anything with their illegal presence?

Now of course this is indicative of the private sector, but guess what, the over wash is that when this occurs your government paid social services organizations become involved at another cost to the legal taxpaying public.

Harsh, yes. But with real choices having to be made, and there only being so much to go around, the choices should be very clear.

I am very much in favor of helping those who are here legaly and doing everything that they can to help themselves first.

[TheCMSH]

How about solutions to the problem? You don't have enough money to pay for everything, what do you do?

............. why don't we all stop paying for health insurance?

Tell ya what, you try that and let us know how that works out for ya

[az-gold]

How about solutions to the problem? You don't have enough money to pay for everything, what do you do?

............. why don't we all stop paying for health insurance?

Tell ya what, you try that and let us know how that works out for ya

Pssst...I already know of people who have.

Ask those who are long term unemployed and have no health insurance.

It's happening every day.

[TheCMSH]

So your answer is socialized healthcare??????? That solves the problem?

[Scratch]

This shouldn't be a surprise to any of you, but in case you didn't know it, hospitals by law cannot deny treatment to anyone.

Only required to stabilize you...not give you check-ups, testing, ect. If you're not having an emergency, then the hospital emergency room does not have to treat you.

[Eddie44]

So your answer is socialized healthcare??????? That solves the problem?

Maybe if we gave the government control of our healthcare!

[Bigfoot]

This shouldn't be a surprise to any of you, but in case you didn't know it, hospitals by law cannot deny treatment to anyone.

Only required to stabilize you...not give you check-ups, testing, ect. If you're not having an emergency, then the hospital emergency room does not have to treat you.

Also no specialist care. No going to the urologist, podiatrist, etc.

[az-gold]

This shouldn't be a surprise to any of you, but in case you didn't know it, hospitals by law cannot deny treatment to anyone.

Only required to stabilize you...not give you check-ups, testing, ect. If you're not having an emergency, then the hospital emergency room does not have to treat you.

Also no specialist care. No going to the urologist, podiatrist, etc.

What I have discovered is that if one seeks treatment at a "non-profit" hospital there's not much they can't and won't do for a patient so as not to lose this status due to the public funding they recieve to operate.

Check out St.Josephs and the Mayo Clinic as both are registered non-profits.

We all have varying levels of health care that we expect and that's a good thing, freedom of choice.

[az-gold]

So your answer is socialized healthcare??????? That solves the problem?

Maybe if we gave the government control of our healthcare!

LOL..well at least some of us agree that that's not the answer by a longshot.

I can't help but returning to the enforcement of laws that address those here legaly and the rights they are entitled to.

[jstrutt]

Wayner? Wayner?

IBTL

[HOXXOH]

How about solutions to the problem? You don't have enough money to pay for everything, what do you do?

The first thing I'd suggest is that all social programs and services are only available to those people who can document that they are here legally.

I am very much in favor of helping those who are here legaly and doing everything that they can to help themselves first.

I had a multi-million $ contract in 2004 and had to hire and train about 25 unskilled laborers. Most came through temp services, but all provided what appeared to be legitimate documentation. About 3 months before the contract ended in 2006, I learned that 11 of them were illegal. I had offered to pay 60% of a health insurance policy for any employee who wanted it. All 11 of the illegals and 4 of the others opted in. I paid performance bonuses and the illegal workers earned the most by far. I offered a small raise each time a worker had 10 weeks of no missed time or late arrivals. Several of the illegals and only 1 of all the rest earned those raises. I fired 5 workers after they failed random drug tests, but no illegal ever failed.

I asked the illegal workers why they didn't get green cards. The problem is that the annual quota for legal entry is 26,500 and that is filled by Jan. 2 each year. They all had temporary visitation visas, but had stayed past the expiration.

So I ask you, were not these illegal workers doing everything they could to better themselves and being responsible with the lone exception of staying on this side of a political line without permission? And were not the majority of the legal ones who were born on this side of the line, lazy, irresponsible, and lacking ambition?

Historically, first generation immigrants are the hardest workers with the most ambition. You should honor your ancestors who suffered great hardships to allow you a life in a better place. BTW, immigration laws were almost non-existant prior to 1923, so don't brag about them arriving legally, as there was no illegal then.

[Marco]

I think my work is more important than all others - providing Beer, Tobacco and Gas to all the world. With out any one of these three, there would be anarchy in the streets, civil war within the cities and a nationwide 24 hour curfew!

At least this is what I tell myself and it helps me sleep at night

for without groog life ceases to be fun

[Phill's Vette]

How about solutions to the problem? You don't have enough money to pay for everything, what do you do?

The first thing I'd suggest is that all social programs and services are only available to those people who can document that they are here legally.

I am very much in favor of helping those who are here legaly and doing everything that they can to help themselves first.

I had a multi-million $ contract in 2004 and had to hire and train about 25 unskilled laborers. Most came through temp services, but all provided what appeared to be legitimate documentation. About 3 months before the contract ended in 2006, I learned that 11 of them were illegal. I had offered to pay 60% of a health insurance policy for any employee who wanted it. All 11 of the illegals and 4 of the others opted in. I paid performance bonuses and the illegal workers earned the most by far. I offered a small raise each time a worker had 10 weeks of no missed time or late arrivals. Several of the illegals and only 1 of all the rest earned those raises. I fired 5 workers after they failed random drug tests, but no illegal ever failed.

I asked the illegal workers why they didn't get green cards. The problem is that the annual quota for legal entry is 26,500 and that is filled by Jan. 2 each year. They all had temporary visitation visas, but had stayed past the expiration.

So I ask you, were not these illegal workers doing everything they could to better themselves and being responsible with the lone exception of staying on this side of a political line without permission? And were not the majority of the legal ones who were born on this side of the line, lazy, irresponsible, and lacking ambition?

Historically, first generation immigrants are the hardest workers with the most ambition. You should honor your ancestors who suffered great hardships to allow you a life in a better place. BTW, immigration laws were almost non-existant prior to 1923, so don't brag about them arriving legally, as there was no illegal then.

[az-gold]

How about solutions to the problem? You don't have enough money to pay for everything, what do you do?

The first thing I'd suggest is that all social programs and services are only available to those people who can document that they are here legally.

I am very much in favor of helping those who are here legaly and doing everything that they can to help themselves first.

I had a multi-million $ contract in 2004 and had to hire and train about 25 unskilled laborers. Most came through temp services, but all provided what appeared to be legitimate documentation. About 3 months before the contract ended in 2006, I learned that 11 of them were illegal. I had offered to pay 60% of a health insurance policy for any employee who wanted it. All 11 of the illegals and 4 of the others opted in. I paid performance bonuses and the illegal workers earned the most by far. I offered a small raise each time a worker had 10 weeks of no missed time or late arrivals. Several of the illegals and only 1 of all the rest earned those raises. I fired 5 workers after they failed random drug tests, but no illegal ever failed.

I asked the illegal workers why they didn't get green cards. The problem is that the annual quota for legal entry is 26,500 and that is filled by Jan. 2 each year. They all had temporary visitation visas, but had stayed past the expiration.

So I ask you, were not these illegal workers doing everything they could to better themselves and being responsible with the lone exception of staying on this side of a political line without permission? And were not the majority of the legal ones who were born on this side of the line, lazy, irresponsible, and lacking ambition?

Historically, first generation immigrants are the hardest workers with the most ambition. You should honor your ancestors who suffered great hardships to allow you a life in a better place. BTW, immigration laws were almost non-existant prior to 1923, so don't brag about them arriving legally, as there was no illegal then.

Hmmmm...so as I'm hearing it now, breaking or sanctioning the breaking of laws that we don't like because they don't suit us or feel are fair is the way to go

Maybe some of the real solution lies in getting the current laws changed or at the very least, a change in the people who are elected to do so in our best interests.

I still stand by my personal philosophy of helping those who are doing everything they can to help themselves first, but we need to stay within the limits of the laws as they currently are. Just because I'm doing all that I can to help myself doesn't give me the right to rob a bank, right?

Happy Monday-

[Blk n Blu]

Wayner? Wayner?

IBTL

[Eddie44]

How about solutions to the problem? You don't have enough money to pay for everything, what do you do?

The first thing I'd suggest is that all social programs and services are only available to those people who can document that they are here legally.

I am very much in favor of helping those who are here legaly and doing everything that they can to help themselves first.

I had a multi-million $ contract in 2004 and had to hire and train about 25 unskilled laborers. Most came through temp services, but all provided what appeared to be legitimate documentation. About 3 months before the contract ended in 2006, I learned that 11 of them were illegal. I had offered to pay 60% of a health insurance policy for any employee who wanted it. All 11 of the illegals and 4 of the others opted in. I paid performance bonuses and the illegal workers earned the most by far. I offered a small raise each time a worker had 10 weeks of no missed time or late arrivals. Several of the illegals and only 1 of all the rest earned those raises. I fired 5 workers after they failed random drug tests, but no illegal ever failed.

I asked the illegal workers why they didn't get green cards. The problem is that the annual quota for legal entry is 26,500 and that is filled by Jan. 2 each year. They all had temporary visitation visas, but had stayed past the expiration.

So I ask you, were not these illegal workers doing everything they could to better themselves and being responsible with the lone exception of staying on this side of a political line without permission? And were not the majority of the legal ones who were born on this side of the line, lazy, irresponsible, and lacking ambition?

Historically, first generation immigrants are the hardest workers with the most ambition. You should honor your ancestors who suffered great hardships to allow you a life in a better place. BTW, immigration laws were almost non-existant prior to 1923, so don't brag about them arriving legally, as there was no illegal then.

Hmmmm...so as I'm hearing it now, breaking or sanctioning the breaking of laws that we don't like because they don't suit us or feel are fair is the way to go

Maybe some of the real solution lies in getting the current laws changed or at the very least, a change in the people who are elected to do so in our best interests.

I still stand by my personal philosophy of helping those who are doing everything they can to help themselves first, but we need to stay within the limits of the laws as they currently are. Just because I'm doing all that I can to help myself doesn't give me the right to rob a bank, right?

Happy Monday-

I just love those that come up with the "how great the illegal immigrant has done" stories. There are a lot of success stories about America's that never get print. Give me a few mins I could come up with equal numbers of stories that show how many crimes they've committed or how they've driven our wages. They're still illegal! What part of that don't some folks understand?

I hate to admit it AZ-Slim but I agree with you on this one, but do me a favor....... ixnay on the bank robbery and if you decide to do one, don't do an M&I!

[az-gold]

I hate to admit it AZ-Slim but I agree with you on this one, .......

Thanks Ed, but honestly I don't see it as being about agreeing or disagreeing but rather the open, respectful, nonconfrontational free expression and exchange of ideas and philosophies.

The end result is that possibly, just maybe we can each learn from each other's varying viewpoints of the world we live in.

No right, no wrong, just coexisting peacefully with respect for one another with everyone abiding by the laws and rules of present day society.

Easier said than done I'll admit.

[HOXXOH]

How about solutions to the problem? You don't have enough money to pay for everything, what do you do?

The first thing I'd suggest is that all social programs and services are only available to those people who can document that they are here legally.

I am very much in favor of helping those who are here legaly and doing everything that they can to help themselves first.

I had a multi-million $ contract in 2004 and had to hire and train about 25 unskilled laborers. Most came through temp services, but all provided what appeared to be legitimate documentation. About 3 months before the contract ended in 2006, I learned that 11 of them were illegal. I had offered to pay 60% of a health insurance policy for any employee who wanted it. All 11 of the illegals and 4 of the others opted in. I paid performance bonuses and the illegal workers earned the most by far. I offered a small raise each time a worker had 10 weeks of no missed time or late arrivals. Several of the illegals and only 1 of all the rest earned those raises. I fired 5 workers after they failed random drug tests, but no illegal ever failed.

I asked the illegal workers why they didn't get green cards. The problem is that the annual quota for legal entry is 26,500 and that is filled by Jan. 2 each year. They all had temporary visitation visas, but had stayed past the expiration.

So I ask you, were not these illegal workers doing everything they could to better themselves and being responsible with the lone exception of staying on this side of a political line without permission? And were not the majority of the legal ones who were born on this side of the line, lazy, irresponsible, and lacking ambition?

Historically, first generation immigrants are the hardest workers with the most ambition. You should honor your ancestors who suffered great hardships to allow you a life in a better place. BTW, immigration laws were almost non-existant prior to 1923, so don't brag about them arriving legally, as there was no illegal then.

Hmmmm...so as I'm hearing it now, breaking or sanctioning the breaking of laws that we don't like because they don't suit us or feel are fair is the way to go

Maybe some of the real solution lies in getting the current laws changed or at the very least, a change in the people who are elected to do so in our best interests.

I still stand by my personal philosophy of helping those who are doing everything they can to help themselves first, but we need to stay within the limits of the laws as they currently are. Just because I'm doing all that I can to help myself doesn't give me the right to rob a bank, right?

Happy Monday-

Well back in 1773 a bunch of British subjects threw a tea party in Boston harbor. It was against the then current law, and ultimately the change was for the better. So yes, changing laws can be solutions to current problems, but the British Crown failed to recognize the magnitude of their problem and we live in the result. Proper protest is the generally accepted method to effect change. Sometimes wars work that way too.

Robbing banks is stealing, and only government can do it legally.