Eddie44 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 ...when are you and other libs going to understand this country is a democracy which means the majority rules? Last I checked 80% is more than the simple majority.Democracy? You are clearly getting democracy and majority rule mixed up. That really surprises me. Fact is we are a constitutional republic. You might poll congress next time instead of fox.Okay, I stand corrected we are a constitutional republic but the average American has no understanding of that term. They do understand Democracy. As for the poll, it was not Fox, it was Rasmussen (sp?). Congress is supposed to carry out the will of the people, not what they want. Americans have let Congress go wild too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anmracing2 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Just getting my free post in. No comment on this one.......... Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AZC5Z06 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I love how "liberal" (as in "liberal rag") is used as being a bad thing. There are more opinions in the US that don't fall into the "Conservative" and "Liberal" categories than actually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie44 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 There are a lot of folks that label themselves "independent" but once they.re pinned down on their beliefs the fit one or the other. A lot of indepedents are such because they are just uneducated on the issues and don't want to take a stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 A lot of indepedents are such because they don't want to take a stand.Hey! thats me!!!!with a minor edit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Pedal Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Eddie, I respectfully disagree. I am a Libertarian because I am a fiscal conservative and feel like the GOP has abandoned its core values. I think less government intervention is ALWAYS better than creating another inept governmental agency to make things worse. They should defend our constitution, national security, and safety. Period.What we really have is is a Left party®and a WAY Left party(D). Both Rs and Ds spend borrowed money, are in the pocket of lobbyist and big business, and continue to grow an already bloated federal government. IMHO, it's time to take it back to basics, boot all of these thieves out of office, scrap the tax code and replace it with something everybody can understand, and start peeling the rest of the onion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayner89 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 ...but once they.re pinned down on their beliefs the fit one or the other.Of course...but they don't, their views do. A person can own both conservative and progressive views without being labeled either. And I think most folks fit somewhere inbetween. For instance- I believe in capital punishment, heck I believe in corporal punishment too- conservative. I have no problem with gay marriage...homosexuals should have just as much right to be unhappy as hetros- progressive. I voted for Bush- twice...paint me stupid. I had planned on voting for Obama but when I got to the polls after work the lines was around the block, the longest I have ever seen. I didn't want to wait and I figured he had it covered- color me smart.Obama didn't win by an overwhelming margin cause America is stupid. He won because America is getting smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratch Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Can we re-open the "Please" thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desertdawg Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 NO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie44 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Obama didn't win by an overwhelming margin cause America is stupid. He won because America is getting smarter.See I believe it's a matter of perception. I think Obama got elected because Americans are getting stupid. He had his core voters but most Conservatives or even Libertarians voted for the lesser of two evils. Most just didn't want a replay of Bush and Obama was Charizmatic enough to give them a reasonable enough candidate. I wanted a third choice of C) none of the above. If C had won we do the entire election over. Eddie, I respectfully disagree. I am a Libertarian because I am a fiscal conservative and feel like the GOP has abandoned its core values. I think less government intervention is ALWAYS better than creating another inept governmental agency to make things worse. They should defend our constitution, national security, and safety. Period.What we really have is is a Left party®and a WAY Left party(D). Both Rs and Ds spend borrowed money, are in the pocket of lobbyist and big business, and continue to grow an already bloated federal government. IMHO, it's time to take it back to basics, boot all of these thieves out of office, scrap the tax code and replace it with something everybody can understand, and start peeling the rest of the onion.I don't disagree Dave. I respect someone who will research the issues and claim allegiance to a third party but the average American doesn't do their homework and just wants the government to do everything for them. Most Americans can't spell Libertarian. They just don't want to defend their position so they say they're an independent. I am a fiscal conservative but tend to be a liberal on social issues. The R's have let the Christian Right takeover and I can't agree with much they want. I guess that makes me a borderline Libertarian myself. Ron Paul was just a little kooky for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayner89 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 ..voted for the lesser of two evils.Man, we disagree on everything. Actually I do like your cars so not everything.If felt for the first time in all of my adult life that Americans were confident they were making the right choice, not just choosing the least evil. I certainly never considered McCain evil. I have enormous respect for the man and thought he was perfectly qualified to be President. There simply was a better choice available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Pedal Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I guess that makes me a borderline Libertarian myself.BTW, I didn't figure this out for myself until recently. I always thought I was an R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewstein Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 ...but once they.re pinned down on their beliefs the fit one or the other.Of course...but they don't, their views do. A person can own both conservative and progressive views without being labeled either. And I think most folks fit somewhere inbetween. For instance- I believe in capital punishment, heck I believe in corporal punishment too- conservative. I have no problem with gay marriage...homosexuals should have just as much right to be unhappy as hetros- progressive. I voted for Bush- twice...paint me stupid. I had planned on voting for Obama but when I got to the polls after work the lines was around the block, the longest I have ever seen. I didn't want to wait and I figured he had it covered- color me smart.Obama didn't win by an overwhelming margin cause America is stupid. He won because America is getting smarter. Hopefully you and I are right and America is evolving. I'm finding prejudice around every corner it seems these days.Why can't people accept that getting rid of all the illegals is impossible and start working on another solution. Although the bill referenced wasn't the best solution IMO, it's a real start to a real problem. This is much more progress than beating the dead horse of "deport them all". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Pedal Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Can we re-open the "Please" thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I'm with Eddie on the lesser of the evils to a point. I TOTALLY would have voted "C" in this last election. This election was won by the guy who wasn't old and white. It had very little to do with making the country a better place, and everything to do with appearances. The people who voted that guy into office were not voting for him or what he stood for, only voting for change. After Bush, I would have voted for change if it were change for the better, not just change for change sake. I don't consider myself a D or an R. I violently oppose ALL politicians as none of them have anything but themselves in mind. None of them want to make the world a better place, they just want to make the world their own. They lie, cheat and steal constantly, and not one of them is worth their weight in bat urine if you ask me. Modern politics is ALL voting for the lesser of the evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 ...but once they.re pinned down on their beliefs the fit one or the other.Of course...but they don't, their views do. A person can own both conservative and progressive views without being labeled either. And I think most folks fit somewhere inbetween. For instance- I believe in capital punishment, heck I believe in corporal punishment too- conservative. I have no problem with gay marriage...homosexuals should have just as much right to be unhappy as hetros- progressive. I voted for Bush- twice...paint me stupid. I had planned on voting for Obama but when I got to the polls after work the lines was around the block, the longest I have ever seen. I didn't want to wait and I figured he had it covered- color me smart.Obama didn't win by an overwhelming margin cause America is stupid. He won because America is getting smarter. Hopefully you and I are right and America is evolving. I'm finding prejudice around every corner it seems these days.Why can't people accept that getting rid of all the illegals is impossible and start working on another solution. Although the bill referenced wasn't the best solution IMO, it's a real start to a real problem. This is much more progress than beating the dead horse of "deport them all".Getting rid of all the rapists and serial killers is also impossible. Getting rid of the drug dealers is impossible. The way you just worded your stance on illegals, we should just give up when we face a daunting task ahead. Lets change the laws so we never have to get tough on anyone.How bout this... Get mother of all hell tough on them and stop caring when they're not happy about it. They know they're here illegally and should expect to suffer severe consequences for that. They come here because they know that Americans are a weak people to be laughed at and taken advantage of. They know that we as a people care drastically more for other peoples well being than our own and that we will NEVER do anything to upset the imbalance of power of the illegals over the citizens of this country. Maybe if we had laws that even tried to deter them from coming here they would stop coming over by the truckload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayner89 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Get mother of all hell tough on themI take it then you'll be turning in your domestic help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewstein Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Getting rid of all the rapists and serial killers is also impossible. Getting rid of the drug dealers is impossible. The way you just worded your stance on illegals, we should just give up when we face a daunting task ahead. Lets change the laws so we never have to get tough on anyone.How bout this... Get mother of all hell tough on them and stop caring when they're not happy about it.So illegal aliens are = serial killers and rapists?That's the worst analogy I've ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie44 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 It's not impossible to get rid of them. Just this weekend a study that said 1/3 have returned to Mexico because of our economy and/or the sanctions law. If they can't get job, rent an apt/house, buy a car, get an AZ DL and we don't cater to them with signs in spanish, then they won't find it as attractive to come here. There are those that say they fill jobs that Americans won't take. I believe that to a point. If McDonalds would pay a decent wage they could get American, English speaking kids to work there. Check out In N Out as an example. They seem to still be making money. Now for farm labor you might have to start a legal "guest worker" program but they'd have to be registered with the government and they'd go home after the growing season. I think there are a lot of people that would work construction if it paid a decent wage. I know prices are going to go up but I'd pay a little more if the work was done by legals.Oh yeah Drew, no they're not all rapists and murderers but there are a good percentage that have extensive criminal backgrounds. Go drive through Maryvale in your new Vette and tell me you feel safe w/o a gun. The two that I worry the most about were the two cop killers that we had here recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Getting rid of all the rapists and serial killers is also impossible. Getting rid of the drug dealers is impossible. The way you just worded your stance on illegals, we should just give up when we face a daunting task ahead. Lets change the laws so we never have to get tough on anyone.How bout this... Get mother of all hell tough on them and stop caring when they're not happy about it.So illegal aliens are = serial killers and rapists?That's the worst analogy I've ever heard. No. They're all car stereo theives.I was simply stating that you can't change the laws to start accommodating the people who have broken our limp wristed current laws. Just like the drug dealer analogy. Our prisons are STUFFED with people who have broken drug enforcement laws, and we'll never stop the drug flow. But does that mean we should stop trying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Get mother of all hell tough on themI take it then you'll be turning in your domestic help?As in? I'm not sure what you're asking here. You want me to walk the border at night with an assault rifle and orders to kill any foreign invaders? Where do I sign? I'll even supply the weapon and ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayner89 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 ...we'll never stop the drug flow. But does that mean we should stop trying?Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein We definitely need a more creative solution cause the "war on drugs" in a very expensive failure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayner89 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Get mother of all hell tough on themI take it then you'll be turning in your domestic help?As in? I'm not sure what you're asking here.Admittedly, a poor attempt at humor. In other words- will you be contacting the INS on those cute hispanic brunettes who clean your house on Mondays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratch Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Getting rid of all the rapists and serial killers is also impossible. Getting rid of the drug dealers is impossible. The way you just worded your stance on illegals, we should just give up when we face a daunting task ahead. Lets change the laws so we never have to get tough on anyone.How bout this... Get mother of all hell tough on them and stop caring when they're not happy about it.So illegal aliens are = serial killers and rapists?That's the worst analogy I've ever heard. Tell that to the MS13 homies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Poppa Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Get mother of all hell tough on themI take it then you'll be turning in your domestic help?As in? I'm not sure what you're asking here.Admittedly, a poor attempt at humor. In other words- will you be contacting the INS on those cute hispanic brunettes who clean your house on Mondays?No, the house cleaners can go. It's the ones swinging from my pole that I'm gonna keep. And I bought them fair and square, with my hard earned American dollars, so I should get to keep them.There. I'll see your poor attempt at humor and raise you human trafficking...And Drew, I agree the war on drugs is losing as badly as the lack of a war on illegals, but I think we should get tougher, not find a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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