[Bigfoot99]

I would have to say buying an asset that will depreciate 30% in a year with cash is not a good idea. Throwing away that kind of money can easily be avoided.

I buy used cars with cash, I lease brand new vehicles and drive them for free.

What crock of sh!t. Look at the difference between taking a loan and paying cash...I'm talking about the interest added on. If you get 0% financing, that's different, but not too much of that around now.

Like Dawg said with the lease, you pay money, drive it around and then give it back and have nothing to show for it.

The key to "getting your moneys worth" is to hold on to it for a long time. I bought my truck 10 years ago. Total including financing was less than $28,000. I have had it now for at least 6 years since it's been paid for. If I had done a few leases, how much would I have spent. If I had bought a few in there and financed, how much would I have spent???

I'd say WAY more than $28,000 over the last 10 years. If...and that's a big "IF"...I were able to get $350 payments on whatever it was (with no down payments or "due at lease signing") it would be $42,000. That's a nice $14,000 savings. I think I'll take that. Now if I had been able to pay cash we could knock a few more K off of that savings.

Pay cash brother.

[Eddie44]

It depends on what you want Sean. I want a new car every 3-4 yrs. I don't want a 10 yr old p/u or POS (your words) Durango.

Drew's comment on leases is based on being able to pay cash for a new car but rather than paying cash you invest that money and let the return make your payments on the lease. That's what I did with the Vette. In about 14 mos I'll be getting a new C6.

The other thought is being able to pay cash for the car but rather than paying cash put it on a home equity credit line so you can deduct the interest. Again invest the cash and let the return make your payments. That's what we did with Kim's Benz.

It really depends on if you drive the wheels off your cars and keep them forever or if you want a new car every few years. If I had bought the Vette and made payments for 4 yrs I wouldn't own anything anyway. In fact I'd probably be upside down with a negative equity. This way I turn it in and I'll have a new one with nothing out of pocket. The payments on my lease are about 25-30% cheaper than payments would have been on a 60 mo loan.

I'm going to die with car payments but my cars will only be a couple years old max. Trick is let your investments make more money for you than your payments cost you.

[Bigfoot99]

That's a pretty good philosophy Eddie.

Problem is most people make those plans then let them fall through. If the person has the fortitude to do that, that is awesome, but I see most of our society unable to follow through with it.

On the other hand, my truck is great and I don't see it going anywhere any time soon. I can see myself having it another 10 years. The POS is the Durango.

[Drewstein]

It depends on what you want Sean. I want a new car every 3-4 yrs. I don't want a 10 yr old p/u or POS (your words) Durango.

Drew's comment on leases is based on being able to pay cash for a new car but rather than paying cash you invest that money and let the return make your payments on the lease. That's what I did with the Vette. In about 14 mos I'll be getting a new C6.

The other thought is being able to pay cash for the car but rather than paying cash put it on a home equity credit line so you can deduct the interest. Again invest the cash and let the return make your payments. That's what we did with Kim's Benz.

It really depends on if you drive the wheels off your cars and keep them forever or if you want a new car every few years. If I had bought the Vette and made payments for 4 yrs I wouldn't own anything anyway. In fact I'd probably be upside down with a negative equity. This way I turn it in and I'll have a new one with nothing out of pocket. The payments on my lease are about 25-30% cheaper than payments would have been on a 60 mo loan.

I'm going to die with car payments but my cars will only be a couple years old max. Trick is let your investments make more money for you than your payments cost you.

Eddie hit it on the nose. I can have a new car every 3 years and not pay a cent for them because the money I would have spent buying it outright is sitting there making my payments for me. This is the only way to "buy" a brand new car IMO. Everyone else is just throwing money away if they buy it brand new.

Used cars like the '07 C6 I recently purchased was all cash. That way someone else took the huge depreciation hit for me.

I knew people wouldn't get it, but hopefully now they will consider it.

[Bigfoot99]

Eddie hit it on the nose. I can have a new car every 3 years and not pay a cent for them because the money I would have spent buying it outright is sitting there making my payments for me. This is the only way to "buy" a brand new car IMO. Everyone else is just throwing money away if they buy it brand new.

Used cars like the '07 C6 I recently purchased was all cash. That way someone else took the huge depreciation hit for me.

I knew people wouldn't get it, but hopefully now they will consider it.

Another thing you guys are not mentioning however, is finding the right investment with enough capital to have a dividend equal to or higher than the payment on the car. But then you're kind of wasting that dividend on the car and never building any new equity on that money.

[LastC3]

however, isn't part of buying vettes related to the fact they don't depreciate much, if at all ?? So buying a 1yr or less old used vette ... pay cash ... flipping it in say 2 years ... probably getting what you paid (or more) and doing it again make more sense then leasing?? It would appear no $ a month is better then ... say $600 per month lease... to drive a near new ride .... I don't know where I could find an investment that would pay those kinds of returns .... even with the tax break ???

just sayin ....

[Eddie44]

however, isn't part of buying vettes related to the fact they don't depreciate much, if at all ?? So buying a 1yr or less old used vette ... pay cash ... flipping it in say 2 years ... probably getting what you paid (or more) and doing it again make more sense then leasing?? It would appear no $ a month is better then ... say $600 per month lease... to drive a near new ride .... I don't know where I could find an investment that would pay those kinds of returns .... even with the tax break ???

just sayin ....

That's the misconception most Vette owners are under when they buy. A Vette still depreciates tremendously. My C6 had a window sticker in the mid fifties and price an 06 C6 now. You'll be lucky if you can get low 30's. I've even seen some in the high 20's.

Because of our love of the Corvette we all think they retain unlimited value until you go to sell it and that's where most get their sticker shock.

That's one of the reasons I bought my 66 Coupe. Until recently they were appreciating, not depreciating. I still think I could get what I paid for the C2. Your C3 is probably just now getting to the appreciating stage of it's life.

[LastC3]

I certainly agree on sticker price .... NEVER pay that ... We've had our C5 now about two and a half years .. they're still selling for more then we paid ... the C3 ... yeah .. it starting the climb a little ... its all good !!! Wish I still had my C2 ... got it out of the corner of some guys shop for 4K ..... it would probably be a 40k car now .......

[Drewstein]

Another thing you guys are not mentioning however, is finding the right investment with enough capital to have a dividend equal to or higher than the payment on the car. But then you're kind of wasting that dividend on the car and never building any new equity on that money.

Sure I don't build equity on my money per-sey in the bank, but in 3 years I still have my money and I've been driving a brand new car the entire time. That's the equity in it all, you're not eating the depreciation on a brand new car. Just give it back and still have your money, where if you bought it new with cash you would be down 30-50% with that same chunk of money in the same time period. I choose to keep my money instead of blow it on a rapidly depreciating asset.

however, isn't part of buying vettes related to the fact they don't depreciate much, if at all ?? So buying a 1yr or less old used vette ... pay cash ... flipping it in say 2 years ... probably getting what you paid (or more) and doing it again make more sense then leasing?? It would appear no $ a month is better then ... say $600 per month lease... to drive a near new ride .... I don't know where I could find an investment that would pay those kinds of returns .... even with the tax break ???

just sayin ....

This is where the lease when you want a brand spanking new vehicle or buy a used vehicle line gets confusing. I don't think I would suggest leasing over buying used, just when looking to buy new. Of the 4 cars I have, 3 are used and I paid cash for and the '07 Accord was leased brand new in '07. I'm completely avoiding throwing money in the toilette on brand new cars which is one reason I'm able to spend it modding my used cars.

[Buccaneer]

I totally agree…Interest and dividends are key to make the money you are all talking about, but it takes a fair amount of capitol like Sean said to do that and have a substantial impact. I still play the stock market and ONLY go for the long term high yield dividend stocks nowadays. I know most of you don't like tech stocks that play the market, but Intel trading as (INTC) has always come through over time and that’s what it’s all about now vs. day trading which is a whole other area now with tighter restrictions. There are lots of high yield stocks at varying amounts of investment exposure, you just have to do your homework and find the right ones you feel comfortable with. I also like Linn Energy trading as (LINE) it has gone up almost four dollars in the last month. I dumped all my tech stocks but Intel, I like and have always done well with them over time. Like Hal...I'm jus sayin'

Good input on this subject from everyone.

This post has been edited by Buccaneer: 22 September 2009 - 05:58 PM

[Grayeagle]

Stock Market has always been about doing your homework .. crossing your fingers .. throwin salt over your left shoulder .. mebbe even a few prayers thrown in for good measure.

-grin-

-Frank
(ZR-1 is natures way of sayin I need to make more money)

[ebalentine]

Yes car dealers are all scum. I will never talk to a sales person. As soon as they chase me down in the parking lot, I tell them I'm waiting on a friends car to be services.

Always make your best deal on the sale price before you mention you have a trade in. Then you will know what they will really offer you, below wholesale.

Example: The dealer always ask up front if you are trading, because if you are then they start with a much higher price on the car you want to buy. They want you think you are getting $15,000 for your trade in. When in fact you are getting only $10,000 for your trade in, because they raised the price of the new car by $5000.

Don't say you have a trade in until you are ready to sign the contract. Then say you want to trade in your wife's car and see what price they give you the. The are going to tell you that your trade in is not worth much, they will grind your trade in down to nothing.

if when you think you are ahead, they will charge to $399 for writting the contract, they call it Dealers overhead. that a crack of shit. They will twist your arm to buy life and & insurance, paint protection, extended warranty. yes you can get the same extended awarranty from a thir party for half the cost. Don't buy anthing evlse from the dealer, you can get it cheaper sowhere else.

Buy a 1 or 2 year old car and save a bundle, no taxes, no dealer hidden charges. Use the Internet sales or Fleets sales people at the dealer if you buy new.

[ChadC]

...Always make your best deal on the sale price before you mention you have a trade in. ......

Excellent example

..... yes you can get the same extended awarranty from a thir party for half the cost. .....

Yes, but I advise some catution.

If I have an offical GM warranty, there is some 'wiggle room' in the event of a claim.
...well thats how it was 2 years ago, now with the GM restructor, it is up for debate...

The third party aftermarket warrantys have a bad reputation for 'fine print' and flat out lying.


my own Example: head light switch went out. When it went, it sent a short up the line and nuked a small computer that controls the dashlights.

The Third party covered teh switch but no other fall out that was caused by the failure.
If it was a GMPP they would have covered it.

[Eddie44]

Normally speaking though you can buy the GMPP much cheaper after the fact than what the "finance guy" will offer. Any GM dealer can sell the GMPP aftermarket up to a certain point on the mileage.

[KINGRON]

gee so much info is mind boggling, back yto 85 pinto's I loved mine, in nj I was able to take the
coop into the woods to hunt and fish. The paint was all scratched off and I have a two by four under my seat to
stop the seat from going thru the floor. Trunk was totally rotted but as long as I put a quart of oil in every so often what a ride.

[Blew X U]

Yes car dealers are all scum.

Total Azzholes! Stay away from Stealerships.

Unless you can get something for nothing!!! Take your ride in for some warranty work, when you go to pick it up, point out the scratch, chip or door ding you have in the passenger door and tell them "That wasn't there when I dropped it off, How are you going to handle this?" "My car was prestine, not a flaw on it. This is bulls%it!!!"

Or maybe......Drop off your vehicle and have a sh%tload of services done, return when your vehicle is completed and say....."I never authorized any of this work, I am not paying for any of this!!!" (even though you signed the repair order!) Just keep bi%ching!

[Ted Yoder]

Yes car dealers are all scum.

Total Azzholes! Stay away from Stealerships.

Unless you can get something for nothing!!! Take your ride in for some warranty work, when you go to pick it up, point out the scratch, chip or door ding you have in the passenger door and tell them "That wasn't there when I dropped it off, How are you going to handle this?" "My car was prestine, not a flaw on it. This is bulls%it!!!"

Or maybe......Drop off your vehicle and have a sh%tload of services done, return when your vehicle is completed and say....."I never authorized any of this work, I am not paying for any of this!!!" (even though you signed the repair order!) Just keep bi%ching!

We know your car is pristine. It doesn't get driven.

[old yeller]

Yes car dealers are all scum.

Total Azzholes! Stay away from Stealerships.

Unless you can get something for nothing!!! Take your ride in for some warranty work, when you go to pick it up, point out the scratch, chip or door ding you have in the passenger door and tell them "That wasn't there when I dropped it off, How are you going to handle this?" "My car was prestine, not a flaw on it. This is bulls%it!!!"

Or maybe......Drop off your vehicle and have a sh%tload of services done, return when your vehicle is completed and say....."I never authorized any of this work, I am not paying for any of this!!!" (even though you signed the repair order!) Just keep bi%ching!

Sounds like you deal with the same people I encounter everday.

[Marco]

Very nice!

[Blew X U]

See now CaHd if you were smart you would take your Vette to a Stealership for some maintenance, if you worked it right you could probably get that "drifting damage" fixed for free

[FNBADAZ06]

My car had a TVS2300 under the hood when I brought it in for scheduled service....now it'
s missing How can I go about getting that back and reinstalled at the stealerships expence ?

This post has been edited by FNBADAZ06: 30 July 2010 - 02:44 PM

[Blew X U]

My car had a TVS2300 under the hood when I brought it in for scheduled service....now it'
s missing How can I go about getting that back and reinstalled at the stealerships expence ?

I don't wanna give away all the secrets on a public forum, I can give you a few different ideas via PM's

[FNBADAZ06]

My car had a TVS2300 under the hood when I brought it in for scheduled service....now it'
s missing How can I go about getting that back and reinstalled at the stealerships expence ?

I don't wanna give away all the secrets on a public forum, I can give you a few different ideas via PM's

Excellent.